Ideas for DTV Sub-Channels in Canada? - Page 3 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #31 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-08, 01:33 PM
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From what I read there a quite a few station in the US that do a similar thing, such as re-run the 6:00pm news up to the 11:00 news, then run the 11:00 news to the morning news, and so on.

But this is the CBC that doesn't even acknowledge on its website that it is available over-the-air in digital, and the same CBC that doesn't provide program details in PSIP while it's SRC sister does, and the same CBC that doesn't have over-the-air digital in the majority of provincial capitals with about 2 years to go before the deadline, and ... ok, I'll stop my rant now.

Great idea, but I imagine this is well down the list of priorities.

And you're right about the CRTC. They'd probably be a deer in the headlights over this. Would this be a "must carry" channel for BDUs? Is it a specialty channel? Does fee for carriage apply? There'd be years of studies/hearings on this.

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post #32 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-08, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by BLT View Post
The only problem with it as I see,is that subchannels will decrease the allotted bandwidth on the main channel. The more you add to the main channel will decrease picture quality on the main channel.
That is true, but from what I have read, one SD sub channel doesn't significantly reduce the PQ of the main channel. More than that can be problematic though.
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post #33 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-08, 04:31 PM
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That is true, but from what I have read, one SD sub channel doesn't significantly reduce the PQ of the main channel. More than that can be problematic though.
WNPI-DT divides their carrier into one HD channel, plus two SD channels. The SD channels look slightly better than analog TV, and the HD channel looks absolutely superb. Dunno how a hockey game (with all of that high camera motion) would look on it, though. Probably fine.

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post #34 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-08, 07:24 PM
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I though of one this morning:
Flyer TV.

It circulates static images of this weeks sales flyers.
It can be easily local in nature, and more or less pays for itself.
Great minds think alike, etc. That's already being done on the internet. See http://flyerland.ca/ complete with localization.

OTA brings you crystal-clear, uncompressed HDTV, no simsubbing, and the real SuperBowl commercials. You can't get all that on satellite... OR CABLE.
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post #35 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-09, 10:15 AM
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And you're right about the CRTC. They'd probably be a deer in the headlights over this. Would this be a "must carry" channel for BDUs? Is it a specialty channel? Does fee for carriage apply? There'd be years of studies/hearings on this.
The CRTC have said that they would evaluate these issues on a case by case basis, although fee for carriage would almost definitely not apply as it is available for free OTA.
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post #36 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-09, 12:28 PM
 
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The CRTC would come up with some reason not to allow it.
I read somewhere in the forums that the CRTC has basically said they will not be allowing sub-channels unless is it for some novel use that will not compete with existing channels. Even feeding the doppler radar would likely get objections from the Weather Network.

NBC out of Buffalo used to do the doppler radar thing on 2-2 until they switched over to their sports channel. It was handy because they would show 5 day forecasts for various cities on the bottom, including Toronto.
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post #37 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-09, 01:35 PM
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I read somewhere in the forums that the CRTC has basically said they will not be allowing sub-channels unless is it for some novel use that will not compete with existing channels. Even feeding the doppler radar would likely get objections from the Weather Network.
That is true. Doppler RADAR is kind of iffy as it could be considered competing with the Weather Network (though as a filler program it might be OK, especially if they don't actually give a forcast). Time-shifting popular programs and replacing pre-empted programs might be considered novel though. Alternate programming might also be OK as long as it is Canadian. During rush hour they could also show traffic cams.

So here is a proposed schedule for CBC.2 on a typical weekday:
6:00-9:30 - Traffic Cam
9:30-10:30 - CBC News: Morning (time-shift)
10:30-1:00 - Kids CBC (time-shift)
1:00-2:00 - CBC News: Today (time-shift)
2:00-3:30 - Kids CBC (time-shift)
3:30-6:00 - Traffic Cam
6:00-7:00 - ???
7:00-7:30 - Wheel of Fortune (time-shift)
7:30-8:30 - CBC News: at Six (time-shift)
8:30-11:00 - ???
11:00-12:00 - The National (time-shift)
There are a few holes that I don't know what to fill with, but I am sure something could be found.
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post #38 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-09, 01:41 PM
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Beachcombers!
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post #39 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-09, 03:54 PM
 
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Wouldn't CP24 need to extend their licence to cover OTA for CTV to put it as 9-2? Afaik, CP24 is a cable channel.
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post #40 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-09, 04:04 PM
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Yes, but it would be a great fit as a subchannel.
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post #41 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-09, 04:17 PM
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Great for OTA users but not so great for CP24. They get lots of money from cable and satellite customers (it is a hidden fee). To go OTA they would lose all that money and not get much in return (they likely wouldn't get a better channel number and simsub wouldn't be of much value to them).
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post #42 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-11, 08:12 PM
 
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Beachcombers!
Great idea! CBC has a vault of classic shows that don't need more than low bandwidth SD. I'd like to see Zed again. Wait! Wait! Wayne and Schuster! They could call it DejaView. That works in both official languages
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post #43 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-23, 01:31 PM
 
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I had another idea about subchannels.

I saw a cable system in Mexico that carries a digital music service, similar to Galaxie. However, they use only one channel, using a ton of subchannels for different music channels. I think there were over 20 subchannels. There was no picture transmission, unlike Galaxie (at least on Rogers).

I wonder if digital broadcasters on the TV band could do this to complement existing services? Let's say CTV had a transmitter in Ottawa broadcasting CJOH in HD on the main channel, CHRO in SD on the .2 subchannel, and then all their local radio stations on audio-only subchannels plus additional audio subchannels if there was space remaining? I think CTV has three radio stations in Ottawa - CFRA, BOB, and Majic 100.
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post #44 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-23, 03:27 PM
 
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I think the main channel in HD running at 1080i or 720p would be fine as long as only one sub-channel is run. Preferable a 480p wide (DVD quality) at about 5mbps. That would allow the HD channel a little over 14mbps.

480i is good, but for that little extra 480p wide can improve things and offer 16:9 on the subchannel as well.
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post #45 of 176 (permalink) Old 2009-07-23, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Blackburst View Post
480i is good, but for that little extra 480p wide can improve things and offer 16:9 on the subchannel as well.
480 60p is not necessary to support 16:9. ATSC also supports 16:9 480 60i. The choice between 480 60i and 480 60p (along with the choice of 4:3 or 16:9) should be based on the source material. If most of it is SD, 480 60p would be a waste of bandwidth.
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