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Rogers' Forum Discussions

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#1 ·
I thought I would share this here. Rogers seems to have ordered their Community Forum moderators into "purge the history" mode - they're actually going back through over 160 pages of posts editing the term Navikrap to Navigatr. Anyway, I noticed from one of my posts last night that they have updated their nanny forum software to now automatically turn krap into . (and Navikrap into Navi. ) - and that early this morning one of the moderators re-edited my changing it back to "Navik*r*a*p" into "Navigatr". They also banned forum member krap for two weeks (I believe he's the inventive chap to coined the term Navikrap), so I decided to send the following PM:
=================
RogersPrasana, RogersDarrell,

Seriously ?

Rogers apparently can't afford to hire enough competent programmers to fix the krap (sorry, that will be automatically edited by the newly updated nanny forum software to . so I meant k*r*a*p) yet your ostrich upper management can afford to order the moderators to spend time trolling back through 160 pages of anger from their customers to alter Navik*r*a*p (a term that has been acceptable for months is now suddenly banished) back to Navigatr? Talk about a company that doesn't have its priorities straight. More concerned about appearances (as is evident from the lipstick on a pig Navigatr) than content (fixing RTN bugs we've been forced to put up with for over 3.5 years now with repeated unfulfilled promises that the next release will "fix everything"). When we complain about the k*r*a*p it's the lousy code we want removed, not the letters k*r*a*p from Navik*r*a*p.

Note that this isn't intended as an insult, I'm trying to pay you guys a compliment when I say that a group who pays such attention to fine detail, almost to the point of being obsessive-compulsive (a trait that can be very useful when programming) should be taught how to program and moved to the RTN/Navigatr coding team. We'd probably see this mess cleaned up in a month or two.

In the meantime this latest misdirected time and expense from an invisible upper management that is in total denial gives me just one more thing to raise at the annual shareholders general meeting in April. Banning the term doesn't mean the code contains any less excrement. This seems like a childish reaction from upper management over the latest public airing of Rogers dirty laundry by Ellen Roseman in the Toronto Star. Proof that ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Without mentioning any names here, you might notice that this recent "purge and edit mode" coincides exactly with the return of the previous Community Manager who had been on an extended leave. Her replacement for 1 year was much more tolerant in what he allowed on the forums. The current manager - well let's just say that the forums will now take on a completely different tone and will return to how they were about a year ago or so. There will be a lot more people banned and suspended from here on in!

Edit: I have just been informed that one of my posts has been removed because it was off-topic and that since it was my second post removed in a week, the head honcho will be emailing me to discuss my participation in the forums!
 
#3 ·
Hooter - Oh dear ! You must be trembling in your boots ! :devil
I hope you tell them, politely of course, where they can stick their community forums.

Boy they're really going to town with the scissors now. At least 4 posts removed just in the last half hour. Even ones that didn't have any even mildly offensive language or mention Navikrap or Navicarp, but admittedly showed Rogers in a bad light. But let's be honest here, how can you NOT show Rogers in a bad light ?

Someone posted "Was just informed by Rogers, that most of Ontario will be upgrade by end of Jan." and within a few minutes a reply post that included the following:
"I hope Bell has hired enough new installers and phone reps to handle the flood of new business they'll be getting in early February. Bell Fibe - reduce the stress in your loved one's life - makes a great Valentines Day gift"

was removed, as was one that included the following:

"FYI - just to avoid everyone wasting their time, and wasted editing time for everyone involved when you see the term Navi. in your post, it appears it is no longer acceptable to Rogers to use a certain derogatory term for Navigatr that had been acceptable here on the forums for months. Apparently the North Korean trained upper management has ordered a purge of forum history and all references to that term are being removed. Burn those history books ! I don't mean to carp on about it, but it also appears it is not acceptable to concatenate 'Navi' with the name of a certain fish species either."

Boy they're getting sensitive. Maybe all this complaining finally hit a nerve with Consumer Marketing Executive and Board Director Ron Jong-un Perrotta.

Maybe it's time to tell them, when you get the inevitable PM with a threat of being banned, that there's no need for that, we're boycotting Rogers Community Forums.
 
#4 ·
Hi Neil.

Thank you for pointing out the deletions (and the other person who posted here letting us know.)

The question I have is - have the new Nazi moderator(s) been sending the author of the posts a PM for each post that they zap?

Because I've written a bunch of REALLY, really rabid, ranting, raging posts there in the last month - and there was a VERY distinct trend to NOT edit posts over the last month or month and a half that would have been erased by the mods previously.

And if the mods are erasing posts WITHOUT notifying us - perhaps it is time to post the name of THIS forum inside the Rogers forums - although it may be better to post this after midnight and before 8 am, because the comments listed on the bottom of posts written by the moderators suggest they work from 8 am to midnight - and a post critical of Rogers may last longer and get read by more people if it is written when the 'madmen with the scissors' are sleeping.

And I might even go so far as to suggest that if anybody fears that they might get banned from the Rogers forums for mentioning this competing forum by name as an alternative - if you DO get banned, I would suggest you call ALL your friends (who have probably NEVER written anything on the Rogers Community forums) and ask them to do you a favor and join the forum and post what you were banned from posting.

And I think I may soon be taking the Posters I had made up about Rogers and going to their head office at 9 am on weekday mornings and standing there asking car drivers passing by to Honk to let Rogers know what many people think of them.
 
#5 ·
HDTVaddict,

I have been getting emails when posts have been removed or edited on the Rogers Community Forums.
A Google search shows they haven't yet purged the Navikrap name from all old posts (quickly found several from last August), but maybe that's just a matter of time.

Yes, we should try posting a link to this digitalhome forum sometime around 1am when it may actually survive until around 7:30am. Maybe word it nice and friendly like "In addition to here on the Rogers Community Forums you may find additional Navigatr related tips, workarounds and suggestions over at ......" and they may not catch on for a while - especially if you tag it on the end of some useful advice to someone who complains of a Navigatr related problem.

If I lived closer to Toronto I'd join you at the corner of Bloor St E and Ted Rogers Way with a "Honk if you hate Rogers Navigatr" sign !
Maybe that should wait until about a week after the entire Ontario rollout - there will be far more people who know what the sign refers to then.
And repeat it around the end of March - in the lead up to Rogers shareholder Annual General Meeting. Maybe an email to Ellen Roseman at The Star a day in advance to let her know when the "protests" will take place. May end up with a photo in The Star and another article ! :wink
 
#6 ·
Can't believe a modern communications company wouldn't realize that their actions would be discussed elsewhere on the internet. Talk about having your head in the sand. Also how disrespectful of the frustrations of their customers. They must truly believe that all their revisionist edits are double plus good.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Exactly. Even our venerable 57 has fallen foul of the revisionists over at Rogers.
I received an update email stating:
"57 (I Plan to Stick Around) posted a new comment in TV on 2016-01-09 04:40 PM : "
but when I clicked the link the post had magically disappeared into thin air (as many others have today since their moderators began "working for the clampdown" - apologies to The Clash) sort of like your recordings on a Navikrap infected PVR.
 
#7 ·
From my experience, any time a post is edited or removed on Rogers Community Forums, the poster receives a private message. The reason is usually pertaining to Terms of Service. You can even ask for a copy of your offensive post if you don't see a reason. Just the fact that Rogers is starting this wholesale revisionist tactic indicated that the complaints are hitting home and they really do fear an imminent mass exodus if they can't get Navigatr to work. And that's just after a couple of articles in the mainstream media. But far worse PR has been directed at political parties, who were voted back in office in spite of it. Voters and customers are sheep.
 
#8 ·
Hi LONsat. I think part of the reason that Rogers HAS their forum is so that they can maintain CONTROL over the criticism of their company. If they didn't have their own forum - then this one would be MUCH busier with complaints - and there would be actually helpful suggestions about what to do about it - like actual organizing going on to stand up to fight Rogers in a useful organized fashion, and even talk about class action lawsuits - but when I mentioned such things months ago they were quickly erased from the Rogers Community Forums.

I think Rogers isn't the only company that knows having their own forums allows them to edit and shape the criticism of their company. I suspect that there is a chapter about this in business school books somewhere.

And Neil: I think the signs I had made up say "Honk if Rogers is the worst company in the world." I actually went to the trouble of printing them fairly big - and getting them laminated so they will stand up to hours of standing in the wind in front of Rogers - and I thought of making up business cards to hand out to people to start to organize a 'fight' against Rogers to get people to make noise in a way to actually get something done.

The business cards would specifically be about organizing around taking action to ask why the CRTC allows Rogers to own SO MUCH, across so many areas. You may recall my posts - and I ranted about it on Rogers Yelp page - where Rogers bought the companies that I had cell phone service with, and Home phone service - so suddenly my entire contact with the outside world was 'owned' by Rogers: My internet, TV, cell phone and home phone land line - and worst of all - I was trying to run a small business - and I'm always months behind on bills - so Rogers often used to cut off my services - and I contacted them and told them - if you turn back on my internet I can go online and pay you RIGHT NOW by internet banking - but they refused to do so.

And explaining to them that I couldn't earn any money to pay them while they cut off ALL my access to the world in order to make money .... Well - that just didn't matter to them at all.

But, yes, Neil, I figure that when Navigatr goes across Ontario will be a ripe time to start yelling about Rogers. THEN everybody else (or at least lots more people) will understand some of what we are talking about - and I'm reminded of someone who posted in the last 24 hours or so about how VOD STILL has a bug where if you skip back 10 seconds, and you make the mistake of doing that twice - you are shunted out of where you are in the program to the beginning - and when the TV show producer REFUSES to let you FF through their show offering - then this becomes incredibly unmanageable to get back to where you were watching the program ------

Well that makes me think that Rogers is INTENTIONALLY crippling their PVR because they DON'T want us to skip commercials and use our PVR to skim over the way they get their revenue. I've kvetched a lot about how Rogers now makes lots of money from commercials because they now are MUCH MORE than just the pipe that sends us TV shows. The PRODUCE many TV shows, and own TV channels, and the Blue Jays and the SKYDOME (I retch at the thought of calling it the new name) - and Rogers makes money every time we watch commercials during Jays games, etc.

So I'm becoming more and more convinced that probably several people in Rogers management have made the conscious decision to intentionally sabotage the reliability and usability of their PVR - because it's in their financial best interest if they can subtly and sneakily guide us away from using the PVR - and back to watching Live TV.
 
#9 ·
Hi Oldyellr.

I've gotten my share of 'we've edited your post' messages - but I wondered if the new 'wholesale slaughter' of posts by the mods might be so massive that they think they can get away with simply deleting multiple older posts that they find critical. And it might be less work for them to just delete them without saying anything. ... because how many of us are checking to see if a post we made a month ago has disappeared?
 
#10 ·
Hooter: Thank you for letting us know about the 'purge' at Rogers Community Forums.

At first - I was like - oh no - but now I'm irritated by this censorship - and I'm getting angry enough about it that I can't help myself but to go there MORE now - and start out by being polite - but STILL being critical of Rogers - and continuing to express my outrage at Navigtr and everything else they foist on us customers who have little other choice than to put up with them bending us over a chair ....

And I've thought that if the mods are now deleting threads that are 'off topic' - that I just need to be a little creative with my rants about this, that, and whatever - and at the end of an off-topic rant - I add, "Oh - and about Navigatr ....."

But I would hope that the rest of you will not stand for Rogers censoring the use of the term Navacrap or Navikrap or even Navicarp. (I've used carp on other comment boards when crap would be edited.)

So please don't hesitate to come up with NEW terms of adoration for our loved Garburator PVR (the PVR that erases your programs (that's if it even remembers to record them). )
 
#11 ·
This looks like it's turning into a bunch of general rants about Rogers and posts may get moved to the actual Rogers Rant thread. I didn't realize posts on Rogers Community Forums were getting the Stalinist Purge, but I did see a comment about the rash of [edited] posts and no response from moderators.

But getting back to the Navigatr disaster. The Star articles have shaken Rogers up. What I'd like to see is is someone articulate and with lots of experience with Navigatr go on a show like Goldhawk Fights Back and then people call in with their particular experiences. Yes, it's just TV and not something serious like wind turbines affecting health and property values or government corruption and mismanagement like the Green Energy Act, but it's making people just as mad.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Wow. I just had a mod at Rogers forum change "if I find I can't stomach the Navibomb any longer" to "if I find I can't stomach the Navigatr any longer" (and they used such awful grammar to leave it as 'the Navigatr' - it should just be 'Navigatr' - without 'the' in front)

BUT they LEFT the term Navigarburator??????

Why?

SMH
 
#17 ·
The latest one of mine that has been censored was a light-hearted comment that anyone using the term "upgrade" to describe the new Nav software should wash their mouth out with soap.

Apparently that is too much for the delicate sensibilities of the Rogers moderator.

So - I'll join you folks here and just give up on the Roger's forums other than perhaps for specific fault complaints.

As Neil has noted, if they put the energy they apply to censorship into fixing their bugs there would be no need for censorship int he first place!
 
#18 ·
I completely understand Rogers deleting parts of messages where we suggest we should launch a class action lawsuit, or cutting suggestions of other competing products we should try (like Ooma very highly rated VOIP phone for $4 a month rather than the $50 Rogers charges for home phone), and I understand some of the other edits for comments critical of Rogers - but I JUST KNOW I would hate the moderator who has taken over the Rogers forums recently if I ever met her in person. She seems like the daughter of a librarian married to a preacher.

The stuff they cut out of posts to 'keep it clean' is just LAUGHABLE.

I'm sure the Rogers mod was laughed at by all the other students when she went to school. She probably carried around a bible all the time and has a stick .... so far up .... (oops - I gotta keep it clean now)

And most of you probably haven't had your posts edited there - but - trust me - the edits and deletions will just make you shake your head. The pruishness and uptightness of the recent moderation blitz deleting has been unbelievable.

And I suspect the Rogers Navigatr forum is going to receive an ONSLAUGHT of new people posting in the next couple of weeks.
 
#19 ·
After a new thread for the latest Navigatr update was split off, many of the usual suspects' posts were edited by a mod cracking down after returning from mat leave. However, there has been an influx of new users unhappy with Navigatr, so more and more posts are edited. Lots of confusion following threads with edited posts showing up as new.
 
#22 ·
My thanks to Neilpalmer400 about the Rogers crackdown.
And to Digitalhome for not being under anyone's corporate thumb.

Dunno if others got banned but I was quickly dispatched for 2 weeks after giving the (a that time, still unseen)
new Navi**** software a kinder gentler name, NaviCarp.

Then Rogers mods spent several days editing thousands of posts about the July 28 disaster,
which many of us had referred to as Navikrap and Navigarberator, changing the name back.
Maybe they wanted some of us out out of the way while they "sanitized" our outrage.

A couple days later the new software was downloaded to my 2 NB3s (I am in Mississauga)

Funny thing I like the New Navi****
It actually fixes the main things that made PVR Navigation almost impossible.
But no thanks to an overzealous mod or mods, I won't get the chance to say so
for a few more days on the Rogers Forum.

Comparing the July28 Navikrap to the new improved NaviCarp,
it is even more obvious that the product was far from ready ready for launch last JULY 28.
Its a pity we many of us were subjected to some Rogers executive's zeal to meet some self-imposed deadline.
 
#23 ·
Hi Kra p.

The moderators on the Rogers Community Forum have gone crazy. They are editing and deleting so many posts that someone in the media should actually write a news story about their CENSORSHIP of legitimate complaints. (At least someone in media that isn't OWNED by Rogers.)

And that's part of the problem. Rogers is now such a huge oligopoly that they own News stations and TV channels, and companies that produce TV shows and magazines and sports teams and internet delivery and cell phone and home phone, etc.

The purge of reasonable criticism on the Rogers site is similar to what you would expect in North Korea - or China 30 (or 40) years ago.

There are few times I think it is appropriate to call someone a Nazi - but Rogers forum moderators have recently started to qualify.

Deletion of entire posts because they are 'off topic' has become endemic - and the laughable deletion of 'profane' words is stunningly laughable.

Somehow I get the impression that the main moderator - is it Gabrielle? - is a VERY unhappy person. It's just speculation on my part - but for someone to slash and burn and erase the ideas of SO MANY people suggests someone is doing more than just following the orders of her boss at Rogers.

Some of the edits and erasures I've witnessed of my posts have approached a zeal that paints the mods as almost unhinged.

(Now - granted - I rant and rave on that website to an extreme degree - and certainly some of my posts deserve to get zapped - but the deletions of 'dirty' words would have someone who attends kindergarten asking: "What is wrong with THAT word?"

I think those of you who are offended by this sort of censorship may want to write threads on the Rogers forum that display the actual contempt we feel - and maybe using sarcasm will get our message across.

But - be careful if you are sarcastic on those boards - because the moderators may NOT get your point - and if you say how much you LOVE Navigatr there - you might be quoted the week after by some Rogers PR person when they are being interviewed for an article about Navigatr in the Toronto Star.
 
#30 ·
The purge of reasonable criticism on the Rogers site is similar to what you would expect in North Korea - or China 30 (or 40) years ago.
A coincidence you mention North Korea. One of my posts over at Rogers (quickly removed) referred to Ron Perrotta as Ron Jong-un Perrotta.
For those who don't know Ron is the only Rogers executive who has publicly linked his name to Navigatr, sending out the propaganda leaflets in the mail with his name attached prior to the N-Day (July 28, 2015) release of Navikrap. Strangely nothing has been heard publicly from Ron since. I thought maybe following the little North Korean dictator's practice Rogers might have had him killed and fed to the dogs, but his Linked In page appears to show he may have actually been promoted, showing a new title of ‎"Consumer Marketing Executive and Board Director". Though maybe that is a demotion from his previous title (on the propaganda leaflet) of "Senior Vice President Marketing, Residential Services".
I'll have to investigate if I can somehow, now that I'm an owner of Rogers Communications voting shares, bring up a motion of non-confidence in Ron for the April Annual General Meeting and request his removal from the board (and maybe firing from Rogers). After all, someone has to be made an example of, even though poor Ron may have been set up as a scapegoat when he attached his name to the S.S. (Sinking Ship) Navigatr. I'm sure history will look upon that as a classic CLM (Career Limiting Move).


There are few times I think it is appropriate to call someone a Nazi - but Rogers forum moderators have recently started to qualify.
If the shoe fits...

Deletion of entire posts because they are 'off topic' has become endemic - and the laughable deletion of 'profane' words is stunningly laughable.
I almost laughed, until I realized they were serious, when a comment I made (The programming behind Rogers Navigatr is so Mickey Mouse I'm surprised Rogers hasn't been sued by Disney) was removed, apparently because it violated this forum guideline:
Keep it legal: Any posting relating to a legal or financial matter will be deleted.
Seriously, how anal-retentive can you get? Or maybe they just don't understand context.

(We DO know they understand humour over at Rogers, because what else could Navigatr be if not the biggest joke I've seen in years, but they apparently don't understand sarcasm).

They have actually edited things like "this lousy untested piece of #@%$" and "Navi%#@$" claiming it broke their forum rule of "Keep it clean" and stating in their email to me that their forums could be read by children and others who may be offended. They had no response when I pointed out that using things like #@%$ WAS keeping it clean, and has been used in the comics in newspapers (read by children) for decades.


Somehow I get the impression that the main moderator - is it Gabrielle? - is a VERY unhappy person. It's just speculation on my part - but for someone to slash and burn and erase the ideas of SO MANY people suggests someone is doing more than just following the orders of her boss at Rogers.
I believe it's RogersMargaret. I'm sure if you go back in her family tree you'll find relatives who were avid book burners.
Or maybe she was just heavily influenced by Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.
 
#24 ·
So I had a post EDITED by Rogers Hassam JUST NOW because I committed the terrible offense of creating SPAM - as he called it - by daring to mention on the Rogers forum in a thread all about 4K TV that Bell has a 4K whole home PVR that is available NOW.

But Rogers can put out bragging news releases all the way back on Oct 4 of last year and they say how great their 4K TV will be, and they're SPAMMING TV right now with dozens of commercials about their wonderful 4K TV - but their 4K PVR won't be available UNTIL MID APRIL.

So I guess nobody at Rogers wants you to know that you can get a 4K PVR NOW from Bell.
 
#25 ·
Though I have alluded to it once before, the manager of the Rogers Community Forums is RogersMargaret. She has always ruled the forums with an iron fist. Many of us cheered when she was replaced by RogersStrick. Strick was a very decent guy who was willing to tolerate much more than Margaret. It is no secret that the recent purge began when Margaret returned from her maternity leave. I am sure the other moderators there are acting under the instructions of Margaret and have no choice in what they are deleting and editing. Perhaps some of them really enjoy what they are doing but I suspect others are under the thumb of Margaret. It would be interesting to see a report on employee morale over there! Otherwise, HDTVaddict is 100% correct in his analysis of the Rogers community forums.
 
#26 ·
Deleting complaints.. is one thing.
I think that they SHOULD be there.. as long as they are kept in line (no need for swearing, etc.. you can complain, but do it in a civilized maner).


But I completely understand if/why they removed stuff like HDTVaddict posted about the Bell stuff.
No, they don't want advertising about the OTHER guy, on their site.
Would you?

If you had your own company selling WIDGETS.. and someone walked into your place of business, and started talking all about their company down the road which sold widgets as well.. you would probably escort them out of your company pretty quick?


That is where sites like this one have the advantage.. the generally they are NON PARTISAN.. that they will take the neutral ground, and you can discuss both sides more evenly.
 
#29 ·
But I completely understand if/why they removed stuff like HDTVaddict posted about the Bell stuff.
No, they don't want advertising about the OTHER guy, on their site.
Would you?
The mods at Rogers seem to be concentrating so much on the Navigatr threads (no doubt because of the huge concentration of anger and venom Navigatr victims are understandably spewing) that they seem to have let slip this very thing on the 4K thread, where mention of Bell's offering survives.
 
#27 ·
I'm just reading the Rogers Community Forum and came across a new complaint post that shows "edited by a Rogers mod". I don't know if anything was edited out, but every sentence has at least a couple of grammatical or spelling errors in it, mostly abuse of apostrophes. If I were a Rogers mod tasked with editing offensive posts, I would have inserted "[sic]" in that one at least 20 times. It made my head hurt trying to read it. ;)
 
#28 · (Edited)
I understand completely why a company wouldn't want competitors mentioned on their site, and I understand them deleting mention of the competitor, especially when the competition is offering something better - but I guess it bugs me that all the other mass deletions and edits are going on at the Rogers site, so what bugs me is the issue that Rogers REPEATEDLY promises great things with their service - and then fails to deliver - and I'm VERY tired of seeing advertisements on TV where Rogers brags about how great Navigatr is - when it is not.

So I'm just a little peeved right now thinking about how Rogers was crowing last Oct 5 about how they were the FIRST that was going to offer 4K, and then they are not offering a 4K PVR until probably mid-April - and Bell is offering one NOW.

I'm bugged by Rogers lying to us about what a great service they will offer - and they spend TONS of money on advertising - and they spend WAY TOO LITTLE money on competent staff to actually create the product the promise they are going to deliver.

Just think about it - if Rogers spent 10% of the money they've spent bragging about how great Navigatr is - and spent that money on hiring competent programmers to make Navigatr as good as they SAY it is - then it wouldn't be the Navigatrgate that it is.

Oh - and I claim authorship of the term Navigatrgate.

The point I'm making is that when a company again and again and again messes up - your frustration with them builds up - and then when they do something MORE - that might be understandable and you'd normally let it slide - well it's just one more unacceptable insult that has become just way too much.


Update: Well - I discovered that RogersHassam doesn't like the term Navigatrgate - and he doesn't like the term Navigatastrophy either or Navicatastrophy.
 
#32 ·
I just got my price increase notice from Rogers - no doubt to fund the army of programmers that they have enhancing my TV viewing experience.

Anyway - this one is signed by the apparently new Executive Vice-President Marketing Residential Services - a Kelly Atkinson.
 
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