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Capacitors - Bell Receivers (Known Fail Locations)

74K views 51 replies 26 participants last post by  majortom 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
This is a thread just for the discussion and postings of known locations of capacitor failures on Bell TV Satellite Receivers. If you post in this thread you should include the model of the receiver, the capacitors locations (ex. C393), voltage of the capacitor (ex.10V) and capacitance of the the capacitors (ex. 10 uF rating)

Known issues:

(6131)
C440 - 820uf 6.3V
C78 - 820uf 6.3V
C761 – 1200uf 6.3V
C762 - 2200uf 10V
C43 - 100uf 10V
C44 - 100uf 10V

(6141)
C440 - 820uf 6.3V
C78 - 820uf 6.3V
C761 – 1200uf 6.3V (Added Jan 1 2024)
C762 - 2200uf 10V
C43 - 100uf 10V (added after post 9)
C44 - 100uf 10V (added after post 9)

(6400)
C64 - 820uf 6.3V
C141- 820uf 6.3V

(9241)
C152 - 820uf 6.3V
C164 - 820uf 6.3V
C272 - 820uf 6.3V
C273 - 820uf 6.3V
C944 - 2200uf 10V
C929 - 1200uf 6.3V
C355 - 1200uf 6.3V
C288 - 1200uf 6.3V
C309 - 1200uf 6.3V
C24 - 100uf 10v - lift off satellite tuner 1’s metal cover to access
C39 - 100uf 10v - lift off satellite tuner 2’s metal cover to access
C162 - 100uf 10v (Added Jan 31 2020)
C174 - 100uf 10v (Added Jan 31 2020)
C284 - 100uf 10v (Added Jan 31 2020)
C286 - 100uf 10v (Added Jan 31 2020)

(9242)
C375 - 680uf 10V
C393 - 680uf 10V
C282 - 820uf 6.3V
C286 - 820uf 6.3V
C338 - 1200uf 6.3V
C419 - 1200uf 6.3V
C439 - 1200uf 6.3V

Typical symptoms you may see: freezing, lagging, pixelation, unresponsive remote, or slow to change channels (more then 4-5 seconds) and/or random reboots or constant cycling (reboots it self indefinitely)

NOTE: It is also possible your INTERNAL Hard Disk Drive may have failed (Applies to the 9200/9241/9242/9400), but that isn't typically the case. So if you do change all your caps ensure you can playback one of your first recordings and last recordings to ensure all is well with your Hard Disk Drive. If you are unable to boot back up after changing them you may have a Hard Disk issue/failure.

Any additions or if something is missing please submit them here or PM me. Thank you hopefully this helps someone in the future.

DISCLAIMER

DHC takes no responsibility for any problems you encounter performing the actions detailed above. I don't recommend doing any of these things unless you are fully aware of what you are doing. Our recommendation is to contact Bell before performing the procedures listed above. By performing these actions, you acknowledge that you take full responsibility for any problems that may occur.

Edit by 57 - changes made 2024.01.02
 
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#2 ·
Can you indicate the location of the emphasized one? I've replaced the others on a 9241, but I'd like to keep an eye on that remaining one and replace it when I can get the right capacitor. Thank you for this helpful info.

(9241)
C152 - 820uf 6.3V
C164 - 820uf 6.3V
C272 - 820uf 6.3V
C273 - 820uf 6.3V
C944 - 2200uf 10V
C929 - 1200uf 6.3V
C355 - 1200uf 6.3V
C288 - 1200uf 6.3V
C309 - 1200uf 6.3V
 
#3 ·
As discussed in another thread (and hinted at in post 1), when you have the STB open, it's always a good idea to change all the caps, not just any that are obviously bulging/bad. The small amount of extra time/money is worth it so that you don't run into similar issues in a short time.

It was the same when doing ICs in the old RPTV CRTs.

It's the same when you get your timing belt changed on your car - you do the water pump and any other wearing parts at the same time while it's apart. The small incremental time/cost is almost always worth it, unless you're planning on selling it right away and giving future problems to someone else. ;)
 
#4 ·
Capacitor Specifications

I'd like to make some comments on capacitor specifications:

As far as capacity (uF) goes, you want to duplicate that if possible but electrolytic caps aren't terribly precise components, usually +/-20%. There is an industry standard that sets out capacity values so you won't encounter too many "odd" values in a typical circuit. If I was stuck, I wouldn't hesitate to try the next larger size to replace an electrolytic cap.

The voltage value marked on a capacitor is a "maximum working voltage". Therefore, if a cap is spec'd at 10v and you expose it to a voltage that's higher or even near its rated voltage it's liable to fail, sometimes visibly, sometimes not. Bulging seems to be the common symptom here but they can also leak, sometimes under the cap itself where you won't see it.

Typically with components that have a maximum value that they can withstand, usually current or voltage, you want to derate them by 50% when designing a circuit. If you had a circuit where the capacitor will be exposed to as much as 10V, you would ideally use a cap rated at 20V. You could use a 50V cap or anything higher - it wouldn't make a bit of difference other than the cost.

So the question is, what is Bell/Dish/whoever doing wrong, at least from the consumer's point of view? They're using cheap caps, not derating the voltage properly, or both. I think we'd all guess the latter. Perhaps they're using 6.3V caps on a 5V circuit. Yes, it's enough to keep the box from blowing up when you plug it in, but eventually you're liable to see a failure. Or the caps could be derated properly but are just junk.

The manufacturing cost to step up the voltage rating is probably minimial but I'm sure they've calculated the savings in making most of their boxes work just long enough for the warranty to expire.

Obviously we don't know what voltages these caps are exposed to, so if you're replacing them, step the voltage up on the replacements, again about 2x the original. We can probably assume the replacement caps are of better quality and if they're rated at a higher voltage then you've covered all the bases.

The last thing you have to look at is size - will the replacement fit where it has to go? When you're installing them, note that they do have a + and a - terminal and shouldn't be installed backwards.

Electrolytics don't like heat either but there's not much we can do about that other than keeping the fan working, adding additional cooling, or running the box with the lid off.

I hope this helps.

Kevin
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
Using Tanner's original photo, I've given it an update to show the location of all the caps that tend to fail early in a 9241, just in case others need to replace them, even if they aren't leaking or bulging:



C152 - 820uf 6.3V (blue)
C164 - 820uf 6.3V (blue)
C272 - 820uf 6.3V (blue)
C273 - 820uf 6.3V (blue)
C944 - 2200uf 10V (yellow)
C929 - 1200uf 6.3V (red)
C355 - 1200uf 6.3V (red)
C288 - 1200uf 6.3V (red)
C309 - 1200uf 6.3V (red)

A big thanks to m3repair for letting me know the location of the C944 cap.

EDIT by Dr.Dave: here's the link in case the image isn't visible
http://i61.tinypic.com/a3ggie.jpg
 
#6 ·
Kevin, these are some very issues and unfortunately they cannot be blamed on either the designer or the technician who looks after the stuffing of their receivers. It is very important that the designer mentions the voltage rating of a capacitor when the PCB schematics are being finalized so that they could be accounted for while stuffing the PCB. Unfortunately most companies don’t follow this rule and end up having capacitors of non-recommended values on their boards which leads to such errors.
 
#7 ·
I am sure the voltage rating is probably fine for the application.
Component quality and choice of vendors can play a role for sure.
But, what happens in the manufacturing environment is unknown to you and I or anyone else here, because we don't work there.

Where I used to work however they used to make sure electrolytic capacitors were hand stuffed/soldered after a PCB came out of the post solder wave cleaning process. This practice was taken on to eliminate the possibility of chemical contamination creeping in to supposedly sealed components like capacitors, thus causing premature failure after having plenty of time to react with the innards...
I am not sure in a high volume manufacturing facility they would spend the extra money for that extra "manual labor".
When profit margins aren't very high it's just not worth it for 'em.

All electrolytic capacitors will fail sooner or later, ... Some may last a year, some may last 5 years, some may last 50 years...
it's just a matter of when...

Put it this way, every electronic device designed / manufactured in the last 85+ years with electrolytic capacitors,
has had some that fail.
 
#9 ·
My 6141 was unable to lock on 91. C78 & C440 (820UF) and C762 (2200UF) were leaking.

After replacing the 3 capacitors the unit still would not lock on.

I replaced C43 and C44 100UF/10V . ( At input tuner area), the capacitors looked fine but decided to replace them.

now the receiver is 100% working again.
 
#12 · (Edited)
9400 Capacitors

I am having an issue with one of my 9400's. During buffer playback or PVR playback, I am getting audio stutter and having issue skipping forward or fast forwarding (it will stop randomly while fast forwarding). I was thinking that is is a hard drive starting to fail but want to make sure that there are no capacitor issues. There is no issue watching live TV.

If someone can tell me how to upload some pictures to the forum I can include those as well. I don't see any signs of an issue but wanted some additional feedback. Can someone let me know what the known capacitor failures are in the 9400?

Thanks,

Kevin
 
#16 ·
Hi Marnie,
What I would do is upload a decent photo of your unit's board.
Or provide a link to a photo.
I find that android smartphones take really nice photos for this sort of thing.
Based on your photo that we can compare to the 9241, to see how similar they are.
I have never seen either unit in person, so can't say if the board is the same
or similar design.
 
#20 ·
Where do you purchase the caps?

Thanks
I only skimmed the thread, as I don't own a Bell receiver, but I don't think I saw much discussion on replacement parts, what brand and where to get.

I've been repairing consumer electronics as a hobby for quite a few years now, and have a huge ziplock bag of failed capacitors from monitors TVs etc. They fail due to heat, and due to the fact that most of them are cheap. CapXon, Samxon, Lelon and Teapo are the ones I see the most in monitors, and are "replace on sight" brands, even if they test good.

I always use low ESR high quality Japanese capacitors temperature rated at least at 105c to replace the crappy Chinese ones that fail.
My go-to is the Panasonic FM or FC series. Rubycon and Nippon Chemicon are also very good.
I get mine from Digikey.ca Web site is in Canadian $ even though they're in Minnesota. Shipping is flat rate $8.00 overnight. Not really worth it for a couple $0.50 caps, but if you have enough parts to order, it's reasonable. You're unlikely to find any really good quality caps that are low ESR at your local shops.
 
#25 ·
KR,
Sure, many things can go wrong.
But how do you know they are all good? Did you remove them all and test them?
 
#26 ·
@KR They may also look physically okay but have failed internally. It is also wise to replace them since we already all know to well that they are failing far too often in these units. How did you check them ? Visually or with a multimeter with them desoldered ?
 
#30 ·
Here's the help post on how to post pictures.

https://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/52...how-create-photo-album-use-digital-forum.html

It may be that you were blocked from uploading to Digital Home due to the number of posts you have, but you can certainly use links to photo sharing websites, as discussed in the link above.

If you're talking about the link in post 5 of this thread, it appears to be no longer available at that site and has nothing to do with Digital Home. Certain links (tinyURLs) may not be allowed by Digital Home.
 
#29 ·
when I post pictures here, what I do is first upload it to

https://imgbb.com/


Then on imgbb.com, I set embed codes to "BBCode Full Linked"
and just paste the link in my post. Sometimes, imgbb.com will sneak some other ad links in to ur link, so just remove that before posting.
It's probably not the "officially supported" method here, but is much easier than dealing with the personal photo albums here, etc.
and works fine for me.
 
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