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Migrating from Shaw Direct to FTA

51K views 111 replies 22 participants last post by  CarpenterGirl 
#1 ·
Good morning,

I've just broken the contract with Shaw Direct, and I'm interested in migrating to FTA. I found a lot of information on the Internet, including this forum, but I don't seem to find a very basic information on how to start.

I now have a StarChoice dish, about 12 years old. When they were bought by Shaw, they replaced my LNB with a new one, which is smaller and has 4 coax connectrors on the bottom. I have a long coax cable (70') - underground and inside walls, which will be very hard to replace.

I found out that the Shaw satellites are Anik1R and Anik2. According to sattellite maps these satellites carry several "clear" channels, among them CBC.

I want to start with something simple and re-use as much of the equipment as possible. The first thing I want to do is to tune up to these clear channels without re-positioning the dish.

My questions are:

1) Can I re-use the LNB installed by Shaw? Will this LNB be good for other satellites, such as Galaxy-19? Or do I need to buy new LNB?

2) How do I choose receiver and where's the best play to buy it? I found many on eBay with 10-fold difference in prices and numerous features that I don't understand. How do I make sure the receiver fits my TV and sattellites?

3) Once I buy and install the receiver, how do I tune to clear CBC channels?

Thank you for your help
 
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#2 ·
Unfortunately, CBC is no longer unencrypted on satellite.

Whether your existing dish is useful or not depends on the size (60cm or 75cm elliptical), and your location. Dishpointer and Satbeams are two useful web sites to give you more information for aiming your dish and what size you will need for reception from your location.

97 and 101 are a good satellite pair to dip your toe into the FTA waters by repointing your existing dish. Lots of standard definition news channels on 97.

If the existing single cable from your dish is still usable for ShawDirect, it will still be usable for a new FTA receiver.

The Geosat Pro MicroHD is a nice supported receiver that can download firmware updates from 97.
 
#3 ·
Thank you envirogeek,

I measured my dish and it is 32"x18" (80x45cm). Dishpointer calculated an elevation to 97, and it is 26 degrees. The distance to it is 38930. It didn't tell what size dish I need. Will my dish work?

How about LNB? Will the Shaw's one work, or do I need to install a new one?
 
#4 ·
@WoodChuck

1) How big is the dish? If the dish is 24 inches. As a whole the dish is too small for FTA. Now if the dish is 30 inches or larger. Then the dish is good for FTA.

2) A basic FTA receiver is perfectly fine for most FTA channels. You can fine old fta receiver for $10 to $30 dollars.
Now, if you wanna watch HD programming. You will should get a receiver that is HD/Mpeg4 ready. You should go to a good source like dr sat. Cost for HD receiver cost $150 to $300. Please note there are only a few Free HD channels available on Ku band (PBS + NBC). And couple others that are 9x16 screen format (RT + Al Jazeera)

3) The dish is too small for CBC plus it has the wrong LNB.

Looking at the list there should be 5 or so channels that are "Free" to watch on Shaw Sat. (Many lists can be out of date).

Note on lists. There are 2 TP values. ie 3700- 4200 Mhz or 11ooo - 12000 Mhz. Well the lower value around 4160 H (CBC) are C band feed. And as a whole require a 6 foot+ dish as a whole to be watchable

Whereas, 11728 H (CTV Two Alberta) are Ku band feed. And gerenally, Fta dishes around 3 foot dish. Since, the signals from commerical satellite (shaw or Bell sat) are stronger then from a fta satellite. You can use much smaller dish like 20 inches.

Good Luck,
Al
 
#6 ·
@Emerald_Boar

Thanks you.

I'm in a rural area north of Edmonton (Alberta).

So, my best bet to get something running is to re-position the dish to point to 97W & 101W pair and there's no need to change LNB, correct?

I then can get Geosat's micro HD receiver and this should be enough to start.

Should I expect to get the majority of available channels, most working Ok? (I understand that some are going to be weak until I get a better dish).
 
#10 · (Edited)
The main CBC feeds have been encrypted since early 2013. The post you referred to was made in mid 2012 when these were still unencrypted.

Regardless of this, there are still 28 Canadian FTA services available from this satellite at this time. Furthermore, there is still an occasional unencrypted feed on the same C-band satellite that airs CBC News - The National and some hockey games.


Best regards,

Dr. Sat
 
#9 ·
WoodChuck,

How far north of Edmonton are you?

Your dish is the smaller of the two StarChoice ellipticals. Personally, based on my own experience from just south of Edmonton I would not suggest using a 60e for FTA.

If you want to experiment, you could try to find an old pirate box off of Kijiji for ~20.00. Read through the FTA forum for some feedback on good/bad receivers.

One of the biggest battles setting up an FTA system is understanding aiming your dish. The problem with the used box approach is you won't really know for sure if the receiver works or whether you are doing something wrong.

If you are serious about setting up a FTA system, I'd still recommend the MicroHD. At your latitude, depending on your viewing preferences I agree with Al you should be looking for a minimum 1 metre Ku dish with motor, preferably a 1.2 metre. If you are really rural, and have the space for it, you could also put up a C-band dish. Look at DrSat's channel guide on his web site to see what is available on Ku versus C-band.

A possible strategy to get some experience using your existing dish would be to pick up a MicroHD, plug it into your existing Shaw Direct dish just as it sits. You'll be able to pick up a few Saskatchewan Learning channels so you will know for sure your receiver works.

When I first got mine I watched someone proctoring an exam. Incredibly exciting watching the chalkboard time remaining being updated while people turned in their papers.

Once you've have a chance to acquaint yourself with the receiver on a known good signal, put your address or lat/long into DishPointer to find the settings for 97/101. Use the self install guide instructions from the ShawDirect site explaining how to point for 107/111.

I'm not optimistic you'll have any success at your latitude with a 60e, but you can give it a whirl.
 
#11 ·
I am about 55 degrees North.

My dish is currently pointed to 107/111 for ShawDirect and has been working good for 12 years. When I look along the line of sight of the dish, it passes right through a tree. The tree was smaller and not on the way when I first installed the dish, but now it's right in the middle. It works fine regardless.

I couldn't find any Ku-band channels on 107/111 though.

I found many interesting channels on 97. They suggest to pair it with 101, but there's nothing on 101. I have clear line of sight on these. Hopefully, they will work even better than ShawDirect.

I also found US news channels on 72, but it is has only 18 degree elevaton, so trees will be a major problem.

I decided to go with miniHD and see what I can do wth the existing dish.
 
#12 ·
You can continue to use your Shaw receiver for the FTA channels CTV 2, Knowledge Network, Shaw Direct, others and if you have a 600 series receiver you get an interactive weather channel. Also after 90 days you will be eligible for LTSS for locals via Shaw. See the info on that at Shaw or in this forum.
 
#13 ·
Weak signal on 97W.

When I write about weak signals. I mean, the signal will not be strong enough for receiver to decode. aka no channel.

Where as the strongest signals will be weak for you. In my case we are using a 30 inch dish for 97W. KTV 2 is at the threshold of not been usable. But we get all the channels on 97W. However, I guess if we where using 60e dish. Then KTV2 would not be available to us. (BTW Both, KTV2 & Ebru TV good EN TV channels. Along with the News channels & Regilous channels)

Good Luck,
Al
 
#14 ·
Woodchuck: I just cut my Shaw Direct cord today. I am free of any pay TV (not counting Netflix)!

I would recommend getting a 39-inch FTA dish. They're not that expensive. Mine is actually an old larger Star Choice dish that I bought used locally for $30 (?). When rain comes, signals get even weaker and you may lose some channels you are currently getting on your small SD dish. If you were near Halifax, I'd hand you an old Viewsat receiver for free just so you could try out FTA. You would definitely want to replace it, but it would get you started.

Your dish and most Ku-band FTA dishes have the LNB offset. This means the dish is effectively pointing about 18 degrees higher than they appear to be. This explains why your dish may look like it's pointing at a tree. It isn't.

If I were you, and I kind of am since I cut my SD service today, I'd leave your SD dish alone and use it to receive CTV 2 Alberta and Knowledge BC. You will not be able to receive these with an FTA receiver. After 30 days pass and my SD service finally ends, I will confirm if I actually do receive those channels. I've been told I will be able to. Also, maybe you will want to apply for LTSS later as recommended by dirtroad above.
 
#16 ·
Try typing directly into the remote control channel 9 (Advanced) or channel 354 (Classic) for Knowledge. And channel 23 (Advanced) or channel 351 (Classic) for CTV2 Alberta.

Anyway, you've got a good FTA adventure waiting for you once you get the microHD.
 
#18 ·
Because SD uses what's called digicipher II format.
The microHD, nor any DVB receiver, is not capable of receiving a DCII transport stream.
 
#19 ·
These channel contents are not encrypted, but they are on a Digicipher 2 transponder that requires a Shaw Direct receiver to receive. No FTA receiver can receive these channels. Click here, and scroll down to find the Knowledge transponder 12 on 12050 Mhz and CTV 2 Alberta transponder 17 on 11728 MHz.

Similarly, you should be able to watch channels 392 (Shopping Channel), 393 (BC Legislature) and hear AMI audio on 825.
 
#20 ·
I see. I could get 392 and 393 too.

Of these, only 354 is of interest to me. It would be worth saving. We used to watch it when we had hundreds of other channels on ShowDirect.

I'm wondering. If I upgrade to a bigger dish for FTA, will my ShawDirect receiver still work? Can I connect FTA receiver and ShawDirect receiver to the same cable in parallel?
 
#21 ·
Yes, your ShawDirect receiver can work with a different dish.

But, sometimes what appear to be simple questions can lead to complicated answers.

A dish needs to be aimed at particular satellite(s) before you can watch a channel. With a ShawDirect subscription everything you get with your service is on satellites your existing dish can receive with its predefined fixed view from your location.

To get a selection of programming FTA installs typically have either a number of fixed dishes pointed at different satellites, a single dish with a motor that moves to different satellite locations as required, or a combination.

As you have discovered there is a limited selection of programming on a ShawDirect dish/receiver without a subscription. If you want to keep the SD box in use for Knowledge Network you will need to think very carefully about your configuration.

The easiest way to do this would be to keep the SD system intact then set up the FTA system separately. Both the SD box and the MicroHD would be connected to your TV or AV receiver independently.

If you want to share a single dish, is the current location of the ShawDirect dish also the best spot for a new dish? If not, leave that dish where it is and put up a 1.2 metre motorized dish in a separate location. The ShawDirect receiver can then stay wired to the ShawDirect dish and aimed at the Anik satellites.

When you go beyond a single receiver on a single dish, you require a switch or possibly multiple switches depending on the number of receivers, dishes and the number of different signals (channels) you want to receive at any one time.

To start thinking about whether you will require switching you will want to consider how many receivers, connected to how many different TV's, and how many different channels you want to receive in the house at any one time.
 
#22 ·
Looks like my StarChoice dish is not any good for anything. I'll certainly try as soon as I get my miniHD, but I'm prepared to replace it with FTA dish.

The place were the dish is installed is good. It is on the wall of the garage. There's a bracket, which is bolted to the wall. It holds a pipe (1 1/2" I guess) that first come out at 45 degrees to the wall, then bends and become vertical approximately a foot from the wall. The dish is clumped to the pipe.

My idea is to keep the pipe, and mount a motor on it, then the dish. What I don't know is how big of a dish can I put on with this configuration? Will it be ok for 39"? For 1.2m?
 
#23 ·
Once you get an FTA receiver, before moving your SD dish, connect it to your FTA receiver and check if you can receive the Live 1/2/3 channels from Saskatchewan on Anik F2 @ 111W on 11770 V 3270. These signals are strong and it will test that your FTA receiver is working correctly.

Whether you can mount a 39" or 1.2m dish on the same support as the SD dish used depends on how strong that original support is. A 1.2m dish with motor can get pretty heavy compared to a small SD dish with no motor. Also, that location must be able to "see" a continuous arc across the SE through SW portion of the sky where the FTA satellites are located without trees or other obstacles blocking the view.

Since I'm in the same situation as you with a soon-to-be disabled SD receiver, here's my plan. I am going to leave the SD LNB/dish alone just in case I ever want to go back to subscribing to SD again. But I'm going to use the cables that run from the house up to the SD dish.

I will use one of the two cables by extending it with an F-type bullet connector to connect it to my cable that runs to my FTA LNB/dish. Inside the house, I will install a 2-port satellite diplexer so I can split this cable and connect one port to my FTA receiver and the other port to the SD receiver. This diplexer must be a 1-port DC power pass-through type, and both ports must be specified for use with a satellite receiver (not a cable or VHF/UHF antenna diplexer). The FTA receiver connected to the port that passes DC power will drive the motor and power the LNB. The SD receiver connected to the port without power pass through will only passively receive a signal from the LNB.

I will install near the SD dish an outdoor 20dB gain amplified flat panel VHF/UHF OTA antenna to receive my local TV stations. I just bought this used for $10. I will use the second SD cable to run from this OTA antenna to my antenna connector on my HDTV.

With this configuration, I will be able to receive any FTA station on Ku-band using my FTA receiver, receive Knowledge and CTV2 on the SD receiver, and watch local TV stations. One point about this configuration is that you need to tune both the FTA and SD receivers when watching the SD available channels. Same if you want to record to DVR: you would need to program both the FTA DVR and the SD DVR to record Knowledge or CTV2 on the SD DVR.
 
#24 ·
Thank you for sharing your setup plans. Let me see if I understand you correctly.

The way you set it up, the FTA receiver will control both LBNFs and the motor on your FTA dish. SD receiver will not have any access to LNBFs. The signal coming back from both dishes will be somehow combined in a single cable and then split back, so that signal from the SD dish will go to the SD receiver and the signal from FTA dish will go to the FTA receiver. Is that correct?

If I can re-use the mount from SD dish, I would replace it, because I probably can make the SD receiver work with FTA dish, and I don't really want to come back to them anyway. That's a premium place for the dish and it's hard to find something better. But 39" dish may be too small while 1.2m too heavy.

If I had to go to some other place, I would need to cross a driveway and add another 30 feet to my cable (already around 80 feet I guess). But then the place will be even better. I will need to build a small tower (mast?) to hold the dish. I then can keep the SD dish and duplicate your setup.

However, if I go through all these troubles, why not to install 1.8m dish, so I can get access to C-band, or even install a bigger dish. If I go this direction things get expensive very quickly. I will also need to combine C- and Ku-bands in a single cable and also somehow integrate SD dish. Looks very complicated to me.

My current plan is to look what I can get with my SD dish and, based on this, somehow figure out if 39" would be good for me. If I can go with 39" dish, I'll replace my SD dish re-using its mount. If not, I'll go accross the driveway after C-band.
 
#25 ·
I have only one LNB on my FTA dish. Vertical and horizontal polarities are automatically electronically selected by the receiver by sending a different voltage to the LNB depending on which polarity is required for a particular transponder selected.

I will only use my FTA dish. I will not use my SD dish or SD LNBs.

As you describe your situation, it makes sense to remove the SD dish and replace it with an FTA dish on the same mount. Don't sweat too much about getting a 1.2m. You will receive lots with a 39" dish. Having said that, you, like me, may be on the edge of some satellite footprints. Here in NS, I do wish I had gone with a 1.2m dish instead of my 44" x 40". I could not receive the NBC signals from 103W, even when I tried last year by optimizing the dish and LNB skew for 103W.

My method may seem overly complicated. I'm doing it this way so I can re-use the cables already installed to my SD dish since they are professionally installed and weather-sealed where they enter the house. If re-using the cables wasn't a consideration, it might make more sense to simply keep the SD system completely separate from the FTA system.

My understanding is you likely would not enjoy using a small 1.8m C-band dish. If you are going to install a C-band system, separate its system from the Ku system and simply install a nice 8~10-foot dish dedicated to C-band. The effort would be worth it since C-band is totally different (better!) than Ku-band.

Personally, I wouldn't waste time chasing FTA with a small SD dish. There are enough challenges for a newcomer to FTA without using such a small dish. I speak from experience: I almost gave up on FTA since I couldn't find a single satellite when I first started with my 39" dish. Installing a motor from the beginning, as I did, also complicated a first installation. Many suggest starting with an FTA dish with no motor until you gain experience and confidence at finding satellites. My counter to that suggestion is that after all the work of installing a fixed dish, you only receive a single satellite. You get tired of that in about a week.
 
#26 ·
Keep in mind when considering dish size that a lot of what you read on other satellite related web sites is posted from people much, much further south.

Cyberham had gone through what you are trying to do and has working FTA equipment in place today. I'm a ShawDirect to FTA migrant myself, and my install in progress is at a little over 53N. I understand the challenges of doing an install at a northerly latitude in Alberta where I have to carefully position my equipment to get over 70 foot trees.

Look at what programming you would like to get, look at what sats the programming is on, then do some research on what size of dish you would need at your location. Become acquainted with Dishpointer to see what part of the sky you might be able to see. And register on Satbeams to get a better idea of minimum dish size.

If your county or municipal district has a sat size bylaw for Ku dishes, 1 meter might be the limit. For Cband at your latitude you really should consider a minimum of 8feet for standard definition, 10 or 12 foot for HD. Dishes can be scrounged for free - I picked up a 10 and a 12 this spring for my time and gas.
 
#28 ·
So true! Nobody can understand why I can't receive the powerful 72W satellite which booms into most U.S. and Canada locations. Until they look at the footprint and my location. I had two 10-foot dishes which I received for free and for $100 when I lived in the Cariboo, B.C. but never did install them due to tall trees. Dishpointer.com is a great site! I assume the "rural location" of Woodchuck means he may not need to worry about bylaws for his dish.
 
#27 ·
Satellite Footprint Reports Tool

You can go to satstar.net and use the Beamfinder function to generate satellite footprint reports for your specific location, and enter different sizes of dishes to see how the footprints differ.

I generated two reports for Westlock, AB in .pdf format, but I have no way to upload them.
 
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