Edit by 57. Many of you will remember the issues we had with Fox Buffalo for over a year. This was resolved in late 2007 with a firmware update.
It seems that now there are other issues that are affecting more Buffalo channels and perhaps Canadian Simsubs over these channels.
The issues are pixellation, sound dropouts, freezing (STBs), recordings truncated (PVRs), etc.
Please report here
I understand that others are having problems with their reception in HD, particularly ABC. but sometimes FOX as well. Occasionally there is audio loss as well. Rogers has phoned me back to tell me that the problems are solved, but they only get worse.
Has anyone had better experience with satellite HD? It could be a solution for us.
Where are you located? What originating stations are you talkiing about? Please specify time/date of the problems. This is not a general problem system-wide.
COTU.. Not sure how you know it's not a system-wide problem. Can you explain?
As far as I know, Rogers has admitted that the ABC freeze-ups are a system-wide problem. I'm also quite certain the lack of audio on FOX-HD Thursday night during American Idol (8-9) would have been a systemwide problem. But please, share whatever details you know with us.
I've been tempted to switch to satellite as well. In particular getting a direct TV dish, now that they use MPEG4. There is the hassle of going through a broker or finding a US friend to go through to get it, though.
ExpressVu unfortunately uses MPEG2 still (as far as I know), but they are supposed to switch to MPEG4 at some point. Once they do, I'll be tempted to ditch Rogers.
Sorry, what I meant was that these problems are not apparent in GTA (Markham). The audio on the CTV version of Idol 8-9 on Thursday was fine, in DD5.1.
Yes, it was fine on CTV. It was not fine on FOX Buffalo, which was not simsubbed by CTV that night. The comment from the earlier poster was about FOX, not CTV.
Now, Tuesday and Wednesday night, CTV was not in DD5.1, but that's another issue.
If the original tv programming comes from mpeg2, then there is no point to go from one lossy codec (mpeg2) to another lossy codec (mpeg4). Additional codec translation means more lossy loss.
Except that ExpressVu takes the original MPEG-2 encoding and re-encodes it using MPEG-2 at a lower bitrate... If they instead re-encode using MPEG-4, it has the potential to look 99.9% as good as the original MPEG-2 signal. Of course, it will never look better than the OTA broadcast, unless they get some special feed from the stations, etc., etc.
OK, I'm glad the issues aren't just mine. I've been having problems with some American HD channels, like Fox with Terminator: The Sarah Conner Chronicles. This is all new since about a week ago or so. CTV HD has been fine AFAIK. I guess I'll record it today on CTV instead of Fox.
I've had PVR'd American Idol show screw up on me twice so far. Both recorded off FOX Buffalo. First time, two weeks ago, it only recorded 26 minutes of the 2hr show and when I played it back it was black and locked up my PVR. Had to reboot.
Second time, last week, it started playing, went black and froze up. Was able to recover without a reboot but I didn't try it again, I just deleted it.
Last week's BB9 had some issues for me as well. Video break ups and stuttering and audio drop outs off the Buffalo HD channel feed. Gave up recording BB9 off HD and started recording off Global SD (what's the point recording that show off an HD channel anyways?). Haven't watched yesterdays episode yet.
I also had some minor problems with last weeks episode of Lost but nothing too bad.
I have Rogers High def and lately I seem to be seeing more and more of these little pixel squares flashing across the screen and sometimes momentarilly freezing the image. Whats the story with that? I never saw that on the not high def channels? Am I an isolated case here? Also I want to commet on the HD A&E channel. Am I nuts or is everything they show completely distorted? That is complete BS if I am paying for it and I think I am.
Regarding the HD problems - they seem to be related to the Buffalo stations, or simsubs over Buffalo channels and there are many reports in various threads in this forum. I guess we need to figure out how to assemble new posts about the issue into one thread. I'll probably rename this thread.
Sounds good. I suspect there are at least two problems:
1) Rogers simsub equipment is faulty or is set up or used improperly, especially for manual override situations (explains FOX-HD Buffalo audio issue for American Idol at least)
2) Rogers' equipment can simply not handle the ABC-HD Buffalo signal properly. Something in the signal or some property of the signal is causing Rogers' equipment to mangle it (explains freeze-ups on ABC-HD Buffalo). It's established that the OTA broadcast does not have these freeze-ups.
As for NBC issues, I haven't experienced any of those, nor have I seen or heard of any issues with CBS (other than complete loss of the audio and constant switching back and forth between CBS's and CTV's video during the final Patriots regular season football game which is explained by my point #1.. Rogers was trying to do a 3-way simsub with only 2-3 days notice and failed miserably).
I think keeping a log of issues related to these channels would be helpful, but we shouldn't even bother listing ABC-HD freeze-ups since every show I've watched in the past 2 months has had them.
I'm starting to get a lot of HD blips *everywhere* these days. Sunday's taping of Dexter (CTV simsubbed over NBC) had about 15-20 noticable blips throughout. However tonight's Medium (CTV simsubbed over NBC) was fine.
The west coast feeds, on the other hand, are starting to feel a bit more solid than usual... I had no trouble taping Sunday's Fox lineup from Seattle - usually there's SOMETHING wrong with it...
I was flipping through the channels yesterday (Mar. 3) and came across a completely audio-less Girlicious, but it was audio-less on both the US (can't remember which channel) and Canadian feed (CityTV?).
Considering both feeds had the exact same problem, with no video dropouts, maybe this is a completely different problem. Perhaps some engineer there has the same hatred of these music "reality" shows as I do and "accidentally" turned off the sound.
Unfortunately I can't really help you here. I rarely watch American network TV and when I do, I record the Seattle feeds. So, if you're having problems, make sure you report them to Rogers. If they go unreported, or very few people report issues, then nothing will be done. The squeaky wheel...
I have noticed this channel more blippy lately, but tonight was horrible. The audio was off right form the beginning. I started watching on delay at 9:25 the audio was unwatchable. So I switched the pvr over to 517, which was fine at the time, but I think the issue was on both channels.
Here is the strange part. I attempted to find out when the audio was corrected. I was in a commercial break, and there was an Ontario Lotto commmerical playing with an Applebees audio....??? Then another clearly Cdn ad with Garnier audio ???? So it seems we somehow got the CTV video feed, with the US audio... that is why the voices were off and looked like a poorly dubbed movie during Lost.
Luckily I have backups taping on west coast for shows like lost, but there will be some unhappy folks that sit down later tonight, or tomorrow to watch.
I was watching the latest episode of "Lost" on HD CTV (channel 517), because HD ABC (527) is practically useless (you never know what you are going to get).
However, I was taping the rerun of the last week's episode from channel 527 (Canadian stations do not subsim these reruns). It was going okay, more or less (with the usual freezing of picture and sound around commercial breaks), for about 45 minutes. In the last 15 minutes, the picture disappeared completely and the sound was a mixture of some Canadian station (just like mackbig is saying) and the "Lost" soundtrack. Weird, and completely unusable.
I wonder if they (Roger$) are even looking into this problem? Probably not...they are already making enough money, to be worried about their customer's concerns.
What happened at 9 p.m. is that Rogers was substituting the video feed from CTV-HD over ABC-HD Buffalo's channel, but the audio from ABC-HD Buffalo was not substituted. So we had CTV video and ABC audio. The result was massive picture breakups in the video (likely something in Rogers chain was trying to sync the audio and video and simply couldn't) and audio that was off by several seconds (since ABC-HD Buffalo must have started Lost 5 seconds before CTV-HD).
This was truly awful. How is there even an option to substitute the video but not the sound that is made available to the Rogers monkeys who run the simsub equipment (and yes I get to call them that given what's gone on over the past 2 months). I'll be submitting my 6th CRTC complaint in the past month about Rogers and audio issues.
voyager6868, when you become perfect then feel free to make comments but until then drop them.
Regarding your comments, please tell me again how Rogers simulcasts a separate Audio and video feed? When I was visiting the Rogers control centre, they simply switched over the feed from the Canadian station to the U.S. station.
There were no multiple audio and video feeds that required syncing so when did this start happening?
Without any desire to go into an argument here, I just have to say that what Roger$ is doing is far away from being perfect. I understand the technical issues and the time required to properly adress them, but it's been more than 2 months since these problems with channel 527 started, and nothing has been done. In the meantime, I did not see any credits on my monthly bill.
I sent an email to Rogers this morning, but I have not heard back yet, I know they get a lot so I was expecting monday reply or weekend... but actually I did not even get the customary bounce, "we will respond within x hours/days".... strange I know it was sent, and I know my email was correct as I was logged into my rogers profile and the email is prefigged
Here is why I know it was rogers that caused this, I dont know why, but it was them. It was only for a few seconds.... see synopsis
taping lost 9-10pm HDABC 527
starts off clearly ABC sound, CTV picture
before the first commerical break for about 20 seconds the picture and sound sync up (ironic because is Jin and Sun speaking Korean, but you can tell the sounds match the mouthing...)
Just before first commercial break sound disappears completely
Half way thru break, still no sound (here is the Rogers proof)
All of a sudden they show The Donald and its the Apprentice, with Global icon bottom right.... this then pauses for a few moments
Then OLG commerical, garnier audio
Trimark Mutual funds crumpet commercial - Applebees audio
CTV News commericial - ABC voice talking about fall lineup and abc.com
all the while intermittment pixelization and bad video
Lost Audio starts while showing Cdn Idol jordan sparks CD commercial
Ironically again, video and audio sync up just as I hit stop and save. I believe they flipped back to US feed at this time, as it was a Nasanex commerical and I dont think Cda shows prescrip drug commercials.
I taped the second half on CTV 517, and west coast HDABC.
So the few seconds of Global Apprentice proves that it was Rogers... they were obviously trying to resolve the issue,to no avail.
I am not mad a Rogers, I do pay a ton to them each month, but I will wait for an answer. But it sounds like they are having issues with this practice lately. I guess with the writers strike and the fact that Lost is the only thing I watch on ABC, I just had noticed yet. I would be really mad if I was away and got back to watch Lost and it was this junk.... Needless to say both PVRs are pointed at CTV 517 and west coast backup for Lost from now on....
Well I am mad at Rogers.
As I have posted before, I pay for a US feed so I should get the US feed.
It's simple.
Rogers has shown that they can't simsub a show properly on many occasions lately so they really should just leave it alone.
As mackbig posted it's just constant switching, video drops, audio drops, different shows flipping on....it does seem that some monkeys are pushing buttons in the control room. This usually happens right at the beginning or end of a show.
Rogers will be getting another complaint from me.
Got my response from Rogers....I dont think the csr actually read my email... I think he just saw HDABC problems, and fired off the canned response
"Thank you for taking the time to write to us. We appreciate your use of
our online customer service.
There have been ongoing technical problems with the HD signal provided
by WKBW. This issue is coming from the broadcaster (WKBW) in Buffalo.
Unfortunately, we do no know when the issue will be resolved. However,
it is currently under investigation and we hope, will be resolved
shortly. "
I replied trying to highlight the issues, and how they did not have anything to do with the source feed.
Well the clarification did not get me anywhere. I detailed why this was not WKBW's fault, the audio crossover, and even the few moments of showing Global feed/Apprentice on "HDABC"....
"We appreciate hearing from our customers, and thank you for your
comments and feedback.
Yup, they are not listening to us at all...they couldn't care less. No true competition in the market, unfortunately. Things would be much different then.
If you want a better response from Rogers, send a CRTC complaint. It's very easy to do. You just fill in an online form, and then make sure to specify the date, time, and stations involved in your complaint. (crtc.ca, then Complaints and Inquiries on the left hand menu)
The CRTC constantly says they get very few complaints about substitution, so the more they get, the more seriously they'll take things.
(BTW, there's a "faulty simsub" thread that this is probably more appropriate for.. this one is more for problems with the Buffalo feeds received by us)
I've been having troubles too with the HD channels not coming in at all here on Rogers in the Grand River area. Last night (March 17), when flipping through, HD NBC (529) was not available at all at 9:00 pm EDT.
I phoned Rogers, and the one representative told me that it was a signal strength issue, and they would increase the signal strength.
But then I told him about the simsub problems as well, and he said it was a signal strength issue as well, and I told him no it wasn't, but he kept insisting it was, and then just hung up.
Great service.
If the transport stream from an off-air station is 'illegal', meaning not consistent with the ATSC specification for the MPEG transport stream, or contains errors then the cable MPEG multiplex equipment will often have problems. The WKBW MPEG transport stream has at least 7 streams in it:
PID - program identification
WKBW HD video
WKBW HD audio
WNGS video
WNGS audio
WCSN video
WCSN audio
If the broadcaster's ATSC multiplexer has hardware or software problems, or if the technician in Buffalo configured the multiplexer incorrectly then MPEG transport stream errors may be present that the cable equipment will have trouble handling. If the data is not correct in the stream then the switching equipment will not know the right point to delete the WKBW video and audio streams and insert the Canadian broadcaster video and audio stream. Readers of the off-air forum know that errors in the MPEG stream are not uncommon especially when it concerns the PSIP tables.
Consumer HDTV sets are designed to ignore or conceal MPEG transport stream errors but cable multiplex processors cannot do this because of the downstream effects of leaving uncorrected errors. The processor will have additional problems when trying to perform an MPEG switch for program substitution. MPEG stream problems can only be diagnosed properly with a transport stream analyser operated by a knowledgeable techician. You cannot run an extensive MPEG distribution network without this equipment and trained technicians.
Last year there were problems with WUTV HD affecting program substitution and PVR recordings. The WUTV MPEG multiplexer/switch had problems that introduced errors when switching MPEG sources between the Fox network satellite feed and the local HD encoder for local commercials and station breaks. The problem seems resolved now.
Rogers response to a viewer's complaint reported in this thread explains the problem is linked to the broadcaster's equipment. Only a trained expert with access to an MPEG analyser and the WKBW off-air broadcast stream could definitively say that the problem is not with WKBW.
I agree it is a much more complex issue. My comment was not about the overall poor quality of HDABC feed recently, it was specifically about what Rogers did during the Lost simsub last week. (US-ABC audio, Cdn CTV video, Global TV crossover)
So I can definitively say that WKBW had nothing to do with the Global feed of Apprentice magically appearing during the Lost simsub.
Rogers response to a viewer's complaint reported in this thread explains the problem is linked to the broadcaster's equipment. Only a trained expert with access to an MPEG analyser and the WKBW off-air broadcast stream could definitively say that the problem is not with WKBW.
Thanks for all the information GeorgeMX. I have a bit more sympathy for Rogers, in terms of the freeze-ups on ABC, if it's indeed the case that WKBW's signal is not following the specs and is throwing off Rogers' equipment. There's really no excuse for the simsub problems, though, as Rogers can completely ditch the ABC feed and replace with CTV and this should solve any problems introduced by ABC.
Does more robust switching equipment exist that can work around these issues? (Although I'm sure it's expensive stuff, if it does exist)
I guess at this point, Rogers has 3 options:
a) Possible buy more expensive equipment
b) Keep hounding ABC to fix the problem
c) Switch to the Detroit ABC feed.
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