Hauppauge "Analog Hole" HD PVR for PCs - Page 7 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #91 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-10, 04:29 PM
 
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I always wondered why this didn't exist already.. I mean essentially, this "analog-hole" was always there and I always wished there would be an HD component capture card since it just raw data.. I thought the compression or encoding could just be done by the PC (just like the PC or chip that does it in this machine)

Was the limitation basically because the raw data was just too big to not be encoded first?

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post #92 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-10, 04:44 PM
 
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Now why they consider it a PVR, and not just a converter box....
I agree.. essentially its NOT a tuner.. your STB is the one tuning.. its NOT a PVR, your PC is recording.. basicly this just "allows" component inputs on a PC. Still not sure why this never existed but.. anyway.. wouldn't it be more a component capture card (that can capture AND encode in real time) ?

I mean when you include IR features etc.. we all know the target audience for this product.. but still , its really just a converter.

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post #93 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-10, 04:51 PM
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Pretty much.

Even digital HD is so huge that the studios use big RAID arrays and cable their HD cameras directly to them in order to deal with the massive files that are created.

"HD" that we consumers get on our camcorders is WAY compressed compared to broadcast quality.
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post #94 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-10, 04:52 PM
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I believe these sorts of devices did exist previously, however:

1. They were expensive - over $1000.
2. They did only analogue audio.
3. They were sold through "professional" outlets, therefore difficult for a consumer to purchase.

PS. Uncompressed HD streams are over 1 Gbps.

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post #95 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-10, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BerinG View Post
I agree.. essentially its NOT a tuner.. your STB is the one tuning.. its NOT a PVR, your PC is recording.. basicly this just "allows" component inputs on a PC. Still not sure why this never existed but.. anyway.. wouldn't it be more a component capture card (that can capture AND encode in real time) ?

I mean when you include IR features etc.. we all know the target audience for this product.. but still , its really just a converter.
This is no different from other cards - I use the s-video input on a PVR-150 card. That card is not tuning in the way that I am using it, although it has an analog tuner, this device is exactly the same except the input is component rather than s-video or composite.
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post #96 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-10, 05:32 PM
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BerinG, I also believe large commercial companies were and are still afraid of the wrath of the motion picture industry. I remember around 2002, commercial DVR products with component video input for SD recording, were quickly discontinued when the motion picture industry started to roar.

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post #97 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-10, 11:17 PM
 
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If the unit has a built-in analog to digital convertor, why does it list such a hefty dual processor as a pre-req .. or is this simply for playback? Earlier comments suggest that you can simply burn the AVC file to a standard DVD-R and then use a BD player to play it. If this is my scenario, then do I still need a dual core PC?

Also, I presume that a PS3 or stand-alone Blu-ray consumer machine can play the AVC file .. but if I had a BD drive in my PC, I'd still need the dual processor?

In addition to the previous comments about why people like this device, I'm also looking forward to using it with my Sony HD camcorder which at the moment only outputs MPEG 2 TS files .. which I burn to DVD and play on my Avel player .. but long term I'd rather my content play on a more standard player.

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post #98 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-11, 10:22 AM
 
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PS. Uncompressed HD streams are over 1 Gbps.
I guess right there a straight analog signal capture would be an issue unless you've got huge amounts of HDD space.. and then there would still be the need for compression if you plan on keeping it..

I had no idea.. i really though they didn't exist because it was illegal or something... and so no company would ever come out with a consumer product like this. I figured they were just available for movie studios or pros under certain licenses.. im just happy someone finally stepped up..

Quote:
I'd still need the dual processor?
Have you downloaded HD movies/videos and played them back on your PC ? That would give you an idea of how well your PC can handle HD.. it also depends if its 720 or 1080 video..Although even if an HD movie (from your harddrive) plays without being choppy, that's not saying that this device will work flawlessly..

If you had a Blu-Ray drive in your PC, the minimum requirements for the drive are a 3.2Ghz Intel (but a 3.4Ghz is recommended or an dualcore AthlonX2), 512 or 1gb of ram etc... so you would already need a decent PC for a Blu-ray drive.

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post #99 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-11, 10:55 AM
 
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I think the dual core requirement comes from the assumption (very reasonable one) that no assistance in decoding the video is offered by the video card.

A 720/60p AVC stream can be decoded by a lowly 1.5GHz single core CPU when using CoreAVC.
If you move up to 1080 and add interlacing (the biggest curse of all) not every dual core CPU will be up to the task (without GPU assistance).

The soon to be released G45 Intel boards will reportedly decode all three formats - MPEG-2, AVC and VC-1 - by the onboard video card.
No CPU required...
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post #100 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-11, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granduncle
The soon to be released G45 Intel boards will reportedly decode all three formats - MPEG-2, AVC and VC-1 - by the onboard video card.
No CPU required...
The AMD 780G already does this. And the G45 is having serious issues at the moment and may be delayed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BerinG
Have you downloaded HD movies/videos and played them back on your PC ?
Unless you get actual HDTV content and not rescaled and compressed torrent videos, you may be fooling yourself.

For a good idea of how punishing REAL 1080p content is, go to the Microsoft WMV-HD site and download some of their clips. Truly punishing.
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post #101 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-11, 11:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by que3jxp
The AMD 780G already does this.
Not every AVC flavor.
Some x264 encoding I made myself are CPU only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by que3jxp
For a good idea of how punishing REAL 1080p content is, go to the Microsoft WMV-HD site and download some of their clips.
That will give you only an idea.
Those clips, as well as all XBox live movies, are encoded using 3 generations old encoder, have a GOP of a few seconds (1/10th of that on HD/BD), use Main Profile, etc.
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post #102 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-11, 12:47 PM
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Not every AVC flavor.
Some x264 encoding I made myself are CPU only.
That is all fine and dandy but for the purposes of this thread and for the HD-PVR device, the flavors of AVC (AVCHD) that are used are supported by the 780G.

Quote:
That will give you only an idea.
And that is what I said.

The problem that I was trying to help people avoid was the one of downloading "HD" content via Bit Torrent and thinking that it was 720p or 1080p. The vast percentage of it is not even 720p after all of the compression that is applied to it and it surely is not stored in H264 or AVCHD.
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post #103 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-11, 01:14 PM
 
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I'd go as far as to claim that if you know what you are doing, you can re-encode a 20GB+ HD/BD movie into
DVD9 size (720p, movie only) and you will not be able to notice the difference from the original on a 720p display.

From what I've seen, some of the encodes on BitTorrent are of very good quality.
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post #104 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-11, 01:29 PM
 
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Although I didn't mean to download a torrent of an HD movie.. I was thinking something like a WMV-HD movie (or preview that Microsoft offer on their website). HD movies are still high bandwidth.. unless its just a DVD release of an HD rip...in that case it would still be 480p.. I have a full 720p movie that fits on a 4.7gb and it works fine (if thats all im doing) on my dual core, 2gb ram, 256mb gpu PC, but is choppy on my girlfriends 1.8ghz dual core laptop (1gb, shared gpu..). There's also a difference between what we see and what is technically there (whether you see it or not)

The torrent releases might not be as "complete" (not 1080p) as a real HD-DVD or Blu-ray movie, but there's still processing to do to decode and output it etc... Also considering that HD broadcasts are ALSO compressed, i don't think its apples and oranges.. maybe more like oranges and lemons

Maybe those requirements are only if you want to simultaneously record to HDD and watch live on your pc monitor as well.. I guess we'll find out soon enough when it comes out.. I will definitely upgrade my PC if I have to to make this work

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post #105 of 125 (permalink) Old 2008-04-12, 11:07 AM
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OK, so I finally got the latest clip that is made with the HD-PVR and boys and girls, it will hand your PC its BUTT!!!

I ran it with my AMD 690G based system with an X2 4000+ and it played smooth but pegged the CPU % at 99. I also ran the clip on an A64 3500+ with a Radeon X1600 Pro. It was a bit choppy and the CPU was pegged at 100%. The X1600 has support for H264 so this is another sign of how much power is needed to run the video from the HD-PVR.

Hardware support for H264/AVC/AVCHD is an absolute must.

And as for how nice the clip looked? It was pretty frigging nice. The clip was only at about half of the max quality that it could have been recorded and it was very easily as good as most 720p material I get from Rogers.
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