TMN-HD - Major Macroblocking - Page 2 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #16 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-13, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57
There were other action movies in 2003 and early 2004 and I simply don't recall this extent of problems.

I believe something has changed....
Possibly. I think I had questioned this months ago. Had there been a bit-rate reduction in 1080i broadcasts?

But, I didn't mean action. I meant specifically lightning. Flashing causing rapid luminance changes to the entire scene.

Look what I said in early 2003:


Severe block noise in scene of Dracula 2000 on HDTMN


I see this kind of thing whenever prominant lightning occurs. It may be worse now, but it has always been bad.

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post #17 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-13, 07:12 PM
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Ummm, hate to break in on such a geat discussion, but for the uninitiated... quest ce c'est macroblocking?
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post #18 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-13, 07:29 PM
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heavy pixelation in the picture. bunch of little blocks everywhere like if the computer is trying to make up a picture with missing info. You can cheat my ears but you can't fool my eyes....

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post #19 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-13, 09:35 PM
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Thanks. But how can you differentiate between macroblocking and over compression?
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post #20 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-14, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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Macroblocking is caused by too much compression. Unfortunately an HD stream contains over 1.3 Gb/sec of information that needs to be compressed (using MPEG) to at most 19.4 Mb/sec (a compression factor of more than 60.)

Most of the time, it works just fine. Sometimes, when there's a lot of change on the screen, it doesn't.

If you wish to discuss macroblocking further, please start another thread on the subject as I'm trying to keep this one "clean" for my contact at TMN-HD. Thanks.

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post #21 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-14, 10:49 AM
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57,
Could you add this program to the list that had lots of macroblocking? The Dead Like Me last night in NB had lots of it. It's the first time I see that program to have any defects in the picture.
It happened each time Georgia thought of the past and came back in the present. It was so bad, I thought there was a match of Tetris in between the shots. I have it recorded on the PVR and if I can, I'd post the picture. I slowed motion through it and it's all grey between the frames of 2 good pictures.
Like I said, I've been watching all episodes since last year but this is the worst I've seen fo far. also, the reds were like a very bad transcode of a DV movie. It seemed like it bled everywhere and had the looks of a NTSC picture on dope.

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post #22 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-14, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. Will add (actually TMN is reading this thread on occasion)

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post #23 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-19, 09:08 AM
 
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hi,

i've been an hd subcriber with rogers for 6 months now. i have noticed macroblocking on almost every movie in on TMN-HD that i have seen since kill bill. I don't think i noticed it before on movies like Catch Me If You Can. I haven't seen the latest broadcast on it, but I think that something has changed over the past few months. I notice macroblocking mostly in scenes with lightening (unwatchable like in Bad Boys 2) or scence with close up quick movement. Some movies that I have seen this in are Chicago, Lord of the Rings, Kill Bill. Almost every movie has some degree of macroblocking, some to the point where i prefer to watch the SD version.

I hope this is an issue that can be resolved because it seems to be getting worse.
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post #24 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-19, 01:10 PM Thread Starter
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The people at TMN-HD are going to be viewing the 9:45 AM Monday "You Got Served" movie. I recorded it recently and it still has the major macroblocking in the dance sequences at the start of the movie during the credits and at the dance scenes near the end of the movie. Any red clothing seems to show it very well...

There is a major macroblock/screen freeze right after the credit for "casting by" about 3-4 minutes in. If you've got an HD DVR, set it for the 9:45 Monday showing...

I'll advise what I hear back from TMN.

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post #25 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-19, 02:11 PM
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Good stuff!

Let's hope they don't merely point a finger at Rogers.

Anyone know the format TMN delivers their HD movies in?

Gary

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post #26 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-19, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dialog_gvf
Anyone know the format TMN delivers their HD movies in?
Depends on the service provider. See the Digital Home FAQ on "HDTV Formats". On Rogers it's 1080i.

Forgot to mention, they will be looking at both:

- their feed to Rogers
- the Rogers "output".

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post #27 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-20, 10:03 AM
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A little late but better than never. I watched these shows while recorded and noticed the severe macroblocking. Luckily the movies were not that great so I was not as pissed as I might have been (although the only reason I watched You Got Served was for the dance sequences which were ruined by macroblocking).

I hate showing these movies to friends/family because it reflects poorly on my system and TMN. I get frustrated about talking the praises up of my system, HD, and TMN just to turn around and show people how poor it can be. Don't make me start bad-mouthing TMN.

Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely stupid.
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post #28 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-20, 11:19 PM
 
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I should also add that I have noticed macroblocking on other channels beside TMN. For example, I also noticed it on the NBC feed of Las Vegas tonight. Hope this helps.
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post #29 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-21, 09:20 AM
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57,
Last night, Dead Like Me was full of Macroblocking. This time they didn't need any flashes or lightning effects to make it worse. When the camera when from one side of a room to another, real fast, it's like if the picture had a hard time being drawn or something. It was grainy and very blocky. Then when the camera stopped, it took half a second to make it normal clear again. Kinda sucks when you're into the show. I wasn't "looking" for any defects but when they "yell" at ya, I can't help but notice them thus distracting me from the show.

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post #30 of 90 (permalink) Old 2004-12-21, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57
Depends on the service provider. See the Digital Home FAQ on "HDTV Formats". On Rogers it's 1080i.
I meant whether it was tape/hard drive. Compressed/uncompressed.

Is a tape arriving with some dropouts in it, or is that being created by Rogers when they broadcast it?

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