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Question about modem downstream/upstream rates?

4K views 12 replies 3 participants last post by  CodyG102 
#1 ·
Can anyone authoritatively confirm what these numbers (Downstream Rate: 3616 Kbps / Upstream Rate: 640Kbps) displayed on an Actiontec GT784WN modem/gateway represent?

I'm trying to find out if they're showing the lines capabilities or if they're "caps" built in to the firmware. It's hard to find any detailed info on this device beyond sales brochures and basic install manuals and the problem's further compounded in this case by BellAliant imposing their customized firmware on it. If you can provide a source for the info, even better. Thanks!
 
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#2 ·
It means you will get a maximum download speed of 3616 Kbps and a maximum upload speed of 640Kbps. These numbers are determined by the plan (which are basically limits on speed) and line quality or distance. Download speeds for standard ADSL plans can vary from 5000Kbps (5Mbpps) to 10,000Kbps (10Mbps.) 5, 6, and 7 Mbps plans are quite commonly offered. Upload speeds are typically limited to between 0.5Mbps and 1Mbps. In this case, I would guess that line quality or distance is limiting the download speed.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, ExDilbert, I appreciate the quick reply.

You've confirmed my own understanding - it's also referenced on the main page for the modem as "Link Speed (Down/Up): 3616 / 640 (kbps)" - and that completely contradicts what I'm being told by BellAliant's so-called "tech support"; they're trying to tell me it's strictly to do with the modems capabilities and has NOTHING to do with the line.

I'd really like to find a link to an irrefutable source that I can use as I continue to battle with them. Their specialty lately seems to be making up B.S. answers (when they've run out of "script") and hoping the problem (whom reputable companies generally refer to as "the customer") will just go away! If I had a viable alternative, I'd drop them in a heartbeat but cell reception here is spotty at best and Xplornet's reputation (and BBB ratings) are enough to scare me off them. I'm getting ready to file a complaint with CCTS and the more "ammo" I have going in the better.
 
#4 ·
Unfortunately, very little can be done about reduced line speeds due to distance to the CO. They could send out a tech to see if the speed could be increased or if a better line is available. Another make or model of modem may be able to obtain better speeds or maybe not. If possible, check to see what other people in the area are getting. I doubt anyone else will be able to do anything. Advertised speeds are always qualified with "up to." Maximum speed is not guaranteed.
 
#5 ·
I understand all the inherent limitations and that's precisely the crux of the problem. I believe their database information was/is wrong; it still shows NO high speed services of any kind available at this address even though we've had standard 'High Speed' (1.5Mbps down) since it was rolled out under the government-funded BRAND (Broadband for Rural & Native Development) initiative years ago. My suspicion is that their records have us connected to a different DSLAM than we actually are - but try getting them to investigate is a never-ending circle. There's an old expression about incompetence that references "couldn't find their own... with both hands and a flashlight" and I'm of the belief that's where BellAliant - through all the downsizing, and out-sourcing it's undergone since Bell took full control of what used to be MT&T - is now at.

Last summer, after enduring deteriorating service for months and repeatedly dealing with what now passes for "technical support" with BellAliant, I finally succeeded in getting a technician to my home. In the process of his work, I asked a lot of questions and gathered specifics on the loop like S/N, loop length, etc. He found problems - ALL related to their outside wiring that were repaired - and got us back what we'd been paying for all along (it's been fairly consistently in the 1.2Mbps-1.5Mbps down range when I've tested it since). When he'd completed his work, he retested the line and told me it exceeded the requirements for their 'High Speed Ultra' service by a considerable margin (~ 8Mbps down capability).

Without getting into a LONG background story (the draft for my CCTS complaint is about 2 1/2 pages - and it's not finished yet) that's what I've been working on since. Their so-called support is still adamant that the service upgrade isn't available and they just keep feeding me B.S. explanations of information I've gathered. Pinning down EXACTLY what those numbers mean is potentially important in proving the validity of my complaint to CCTS.
 
#6 ·
Google the model number and read the specs. The manufacturer's site says it supports ADSL up to 8Mbps and ADSL2 up to 24Mbps.

But with DSL, the "system" includes an automated line monitor that looks for problems (dropped packets, etc) and automatically drops your profile in roughly 1Mbps chunks to ensure "stability". But it won't automatically upgrade again. I'm on Bell (Ontario) and once I found the right people to talk to, and the right terminology, I got it turned off for my line.
But the modem still downgrades by itself it there are problems. For example, my max is 5.3Mbps (measured at the router) and I can run like that for days. But every once in a while it'll glitch down. At this moment, because of the wet weather, I'm at 4.1Mbps. But quick power-cycle on the modem will reset it back to max.

If you're consistently getting 3600'ish, it sounds like your profile is set to the 3.5Mbps minimum. Ask them to confirm what your profile is set to, and ask for it to be bumped. My profile is set to 7Mbps, with the line monitor off, but I'm 7km from the CO s0 5'ish is the max I'm going to see.

brad.
 
#7 ·
Thanks for the response brad. Checking the specs was actually the first thing I did - and I understand how modems "fall back" in response to signal issues like dropped packets - but my question was a bit more specific.

I've been fighting with BellAliant since last summer to get my service upgraded and they told me (among all the other lies and misinformation I got fed by their so-called "tech support") that those "Link Speed (Down/Up)" numbers were limits that were fixed within the modem and had nothing to do with my lines capabilities. What I was really trying to pin down was where the numbers I see displayed for those 'Downstream' and 'Upstream' speeds that when I log in to the modem actually come from. The whole story of my fight with BellAliant over this would fill a couple of pages - literally; I know because I'm in the process of drafting a complaint to file with CCTS over this ongoing fiasco. The particular "detail" that I was trying to confirm here was just one piece of that filing.

After my previous post, it (finally) occurred to me I might get a definitive answer if I went to the source - Actiontec support, in this case. It took a couple of messages back-and-forth but the response I finally got from them was "... it is provided by the DSLAM that provides the DSL signal" which is precisely the answer I was looking for.

What that tells me - in spite of the misinformation I've gotten from "tech support" - is that while my line is currently capped at 1.5Mbps (BellAliant's regular 'High Speed') consistent with what I've been paying for, it CAN actually support higher speeds. Now, it's a matter of getting them to change it and upgrade my service.
 
#9 ·
Given my experience with BellAliant, my guess is that it's a combination of "all of the above". The 'contact centre' people aren't trained well enough to know the answers to any question beyond the basics and probably look for answers from the "higher ups". They're the ones - annoyed at having their naps, gaming, or whatever they do to pass the day interrupted - that are likely responsible for the OUTRIGHT lies that customers sometimes get told.

When their previous BS answers about the "Link Speed (Down/Up)" numbers (and several other things) got called out, I got a new shovel-full. The latest response - supposedly from the 'field manager' for my area - but since those 'at that level' don't lower themselves to actually talk to the customers, who knows the real source - was that "... we cannot offer ultra after someone is more than 2km from the office they feed out of". Putting aside the fact that I'm served out of a remote DSLAM not the CO, this is still entirely inconsistent with everything I've previously read about DSL. They're now essentially trying to tell me that because I'm beyond that 2km limit, I can't get anything better that the 1.5Mbps download package.
 
#10 ·
For ADSL aka DSL , the DSLAM is usually in the CO. It's not until you get into FTTN and DSL2 that it's moved out to the field.

It sounds like training and communication is really broken at BellAliant. I've been through this type of misinformation with Bell, who now owns BellAliant. Maybe the issue is related to the transition. Bell also has a habit of setting the DSLAM to a "safe" low value, often 3Mbps, and leaving it there. Any work on the DSLAM can result in a reset to a lower speed. I don't know if this is policy or just the default for the DSLAM they use.

The trick is to get hold of someone who knows enough to generate an order to get the speed increased on the DSLAM. A tech will the check the line and make any needed changes. Getting a tech out to the residence could get things started. I've found that using a 3rd party ISP can also help. They often know enough to get the right order submitted when Bell techs don't. It usually saves some money on the monthly bill as well.
 
#11 ·
ExDilbert, AFAIK they're running DSL2 or some variant of it - they wouldn't confirm that either.

When their field tech was here last summer, who I will say was EXCELLENT, he mentioned among other details that the distance to the cabinet (DSLAM) was either 3562m or 3582m - I didn't write it down at the time but wish now I had made written notes on that as well as the other "stats" for the loop he told me. I tried last week to get their so-called "support" people to tell me the distance as a way of confirming they were even looking at the right service address and they actually refused! I only got confirmation - basically by accident - that the DSLAM is 3.6km from me, which is roughly the midpoint between me and the CO about 7km away, when they tried to feed me this BS about the 2km limit for any service above 1.5 Mbps down yesterday.

As far as your suspicion that "... training and communication is really broken at BellAliant" I'd say it's not only gone into the toilet, but someone has already tripped the handle! Phoning them is a COMPLETE waste of time - you get a semi-literate offshore call centre with people who are married to their script, judging by my experience... and their FB Messenger support (which someone said was my best bet to get the issues advanced) hasn't been much better. It's not hard to tell Bell now has complete control of the operation (or what's left of it after all the cuts!).

You mentioned their DSLAMs being set to a low (3Mbps) value and that's consistent with what I see when I log into the modem (Link Speed: 3616Kbps down/640Kbps up) - but they tried to tell me that those numbers are settings coded into the modem and have nothing to do with my line. If I had the option to jump to another ISP I would have done it LONG ago, but this is one of those areas where selected companies were given defacto monopolies as part of the BRAND (Broadband for Rural & Native Development) initiative a number of years ago where multiple levels of government (Federal, provincial, & municipal) funded expanded service roll-out into under-served areas where populations were too small for telecos to do it profitably (enough!) on their own. Cellular service is very spotty too so wireless is out - and I've heard enough horror stories about 'Xplornet' (and checked out their BBB ratings); they look even worse than BellAliant. :(
 
#12 ·
>> "... we cannot offer ultra after someone is more than 2km from the office they feed out of"

So therein lies the rub. When they say "cannot", that may not be that they can't "technically" offer it, but rather that "by policy" they won't. Because you're beyond the theoretical limit for ADSL.

On normal Bell, with the line monitor in place (the default), my line would have downgraded to 3.5Mbps, and if I didn't luck into finding the right people to talk to, I'd have been told by the Level-1 people a similar line: that because I'm too far away, they "can't" offer me more than 3.5Mbps. That's the stock answer.

And they do that because if they "officially" offered me higher, and I didn't get it (or there were reliability issues), I'd whine about that (assuming I was the typical customer). So instead they go the route of lowering speeds to ensure higher quality, and assume (correctly) that most customers will either never notice, or accept the "too far away" line.

For the few, like yourself, who know better, they don't care much. Like, where are you going to go? Xplornet? BwaaHaHaHaHa <click>.

Good luck with your complaint, but my expectations would be low. A bunch of non-techy paper-pushers will just hear the same line that you are, and accept it as reality since you're powerless to prove otherwise.

Brad.
 
#13 ·
You've pretty much summed it up Brad. It all comes down to the difference between "cannot" and "will not" and it sounds to me (and jibes with what I've heard from others as well) like they've adopted these more restricted ranges as a blanket policy to 'encourage' people to migrate to Fibe in areas where it's offered and the rest of us be damned.

Given what I've heard and read (including their 100% unsatisfactory ratings with BBB last time I checked), I wouldn't touch Xplornet for ANY price.

BellAliant's biggest problem is I know enough that I'm not going to lie down and take it, like most consumers do. I'll stir, agitate, and aggravate the heart-and-soul out if them for the next little while - there's still a lot of winter left and I have plenty of time on my hands... ;) If nothing else, I'm hoping I can wear them down and maybe get to deal with somebody who 1) actually knows what they're talking about, and 2) has the authority and ability to do something for me. One can always hope...

Thanks for your help and input!
 
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