HD Radio (Ibiquity IBOC) in Canada - Page 14 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #196 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-25, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majortom
Does anyone know if there's any AM Stations using this technology yet?
HD Radio has been a mess on the AM band due to a variety of types of interference and distortion, so is now being shunned by many broadcasting professionals and executives. It absolutely shines on the FM band.
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post #197 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-25, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by stampeder View Post
It absolutely shines on the FM band.
Yeah, to the point that on some stations they've goosed the treble to the point of being able to break glass. :-)

Big big hint to 102.5 WTSS-FM Buffalo HD1........ Your HD2 is just fine however....

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Last edited by CamDAB; 2011-02-25 at 11:51 PM. Reason: Fixed broken quote :)
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post #198 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-26, 02:15 PM Thread Starter
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That makes me wonder whether WTSS-FM are just using some sort of legacy mix or processing from the analogue side that has been patched directly into the digital HD1 stream.
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post #199 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-27, 09:11 AM
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Stampeder, doesn't sound like it to me. The top end is totally butchered. It sounds like the feed is fed into an EQ with the top end at max and that top end is also highly compressed. The song, "Life Is A Highway" gets totally trashed with the snare drum almost disappearing. Meanwhile, the FM portion sounds quite well balanced however with the snare drum holding well with expected processing.

The Delta Blues feed on HD2 sounds just fantastic.

It's hard to comprehend why the massive variations in processing technique.

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post #200 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-27, 11:37 AM
 
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Cam's observations, if apt, are very serious and deserve resolution. Is it the same feed to both transmitters or not? Or why should anybody waste money on FM-HD?

My initial guess, and I apologize to Cam that I ever thought of this. Sometimes when an upgraded music system is introduced, a lot of people get the high freq in full for the first time and feel they prefer the old system.

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post #201 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-27, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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There is still no problem with HD Radio, just with some of the local implementations. Of the HD Radio stations I get from SeaTac the only one that has a top end problem is 99.9-HD1 KISW "The Rock" but I seldom get a lock on it so I haven't given it much attention. It isn't as bad as what CamDAB describes though.

In this case I'd say it means contacting WTSS-FM to describe the problem. BTW if you do, please invite them to join here too since we have quite a few industry pros as members here.
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post #202 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-27, 05:25 PM
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Ben, the "zippy top end" problem certainly has made the rounds. Some vinyl pressings during the '70's and '80's had the top end tripping the CD-4 decoders of quadraphonic gear, I know, I had that stuff. The Canadian pressing of Kim Carnes Mistaken Identity album was well over the top....

Then came Dolby FM. Zip went the top end there too. CD's followed suit.

With portable mp3 players and their overly bright headphones, the top end just gets brighter.

Folks, go to a live symphony or jazz concert and get a dose of proper tonal balance. You'll be surprised just how "un-bright" live can be. :-)

Stampeder, I seem to think WTSS's problem is the HD1 feed, it sounds differently processed than the standard FM. The HD1 feed on WDCX (99.5) is least processed and EQ'd. WYRK (106.5) country HD1 sounds almost like a current popular country CD.

I think HD radio will have to be implemented in order to conserve spectrum and make more spots available on the FM band.

CBC wants to expand into Hamilton with a Radio 1 outlet. But, where to put it. It could be put on an existing blowtorch powered station. How about becoming creative and generate some buzz. For instance, we have two FM's, one for McMaster University and Mohawk College. How about combining both onto one FM using HD Radio? That would free up one of the frequencies for CBC to put Radio 1 on HD1 and Radio 2 on HD2....

These options must be explored if expansion of broadcasting services is to take place.

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post #203 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-27, 09:05 PM
 
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CamDAB....

I absolutely agree with you on getting HD Radio up and running in order to clear up some frequencies. If just the CBC & SRC went HD Radio on just one frequency each they would free up at least 2 frequencies in most market. And even add their radio 3 services.

xx.x fm analog radio 1
xx.x-HD1 radio 1
xx.x-HD2 radio 2
xx.x-HD3 radio 3

After that, owners of more than one fm frequency per any market would be forced to use only one frequency, and place their other stations on HD2 & HD3. In Montreal, Astral and Cogeco have each at least 3 licenses in one market. Some of those licenses should be either forced to be sold in order to allow greater competition or forced to consolidate onto one frequency with one license which operates sub-channels.

If the CRTC would move it's butt instead of waiting for the industry so make the move, we would well be on the way to better FM radio in each market. Waiting for the industry to make the move that they don't want to make will keep the current radio industry frozen.
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post #204 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-28, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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HD Radio is a great solution to the overcrowded FM dial!
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post #205 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-28, 11:58 AM
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Blackburst, I thought of Radio 3 after I posted. :-)

Stampeder, DAB+ is also an excellent solution along with HD Radio... Lots of room for both conversions and and expansions. We all know too well what "Let the industry decide" did to AM Stereo.

And those on AM? Keep the transmission facilities, convert to DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale).

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post #206 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-28, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackburst View Post
After that, owners of more than one fm frequency per any market would be forced to use only one frequency, and place their other stations on HD2 & HD3.
Before that can happen, we need to have HD Radio receivers become widely available. Since most radio listening is done in the car, requiring all new car radios have HD Radio receivers would do the job very quickly. It could be a while before HD Radio receivers are in alarm clocks and other budget radios though.

Quote:
In Montreal, Astral and Cogeco have each at least 3 licenses in one market.
Here in Ottawa, Rogers has 1 AM and 4 FM licenses (though one is technically in Smiths Falls).
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post #207 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-28, 03:03 PM
 
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Actually Roger1818
HD Radios are already in alarm clocks radios. Finding them in Canada is another thing though.
I also spotted something today while doing a HD Radio news google. Mexico has approved HD Radio.

As for the AM Band. Stations on that band are usually also owned by companies that have a FM license in the same market. If AM wants to die, those stations can be put on the HD2 & HD3 sub-channels of FM stations. No loss there. And most probably much better sound.
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post #208 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-28, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Before that can happen, we need to have HD Radio receivers become widely available. Since most radio listening is done in the car, requiring all new car radios have HD Radio receivers would do the job very quickly. It could be a while before HD Radio receivers are in alarm clocks and other budget radios though.



Here in Ottawa, Rogers has 1 AM and 4 FM licenses (though one is technically in Smiths Falls).
2 are technically in Smiths Falls.
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post #209 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-02-28, 03:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Here in Ottawa, Rogers has 1 AM and 4 FM licenses (though one is technically in Smiths Falls).
2 of them, actually.
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post #210 of 464 (permalink) Old 2011-03-05, 10:12 PM
 
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I finally got the Visteon HD Pulse HD radio. Very nice little unit.
Just with a wire FM antenna I have been able to lock onto WVPS-FM 107.9 in Burlington, VT and all it's sub-channels. I do loose lock sometimes in HD. But, the placement of the antenna needs work. The HD signal is clean. Not sure if WVPS has applied to have it's HD signal at 10% of it's analog signal. One thing that I did notice though, their HD3 signal that runs BBC seems to unlock more often that their HD1 & HD2. Is that possible? Does each sub-channel use a specific part of the signal space available. Unlike ATSC wish seems to just send one signal that is decoded on the user end.

Also one other odd thing. All the US stations I get (analog or digital) have their call letters displayed. WYUL, WBTZ, etc. But the Canadian stations are all screwed up. CHOM appears as KHOM. CJFM appears as KJFM. Both stations are Astral owned. Here is a sample of some of the other stations.

88.5 WZI (this is CBC Radio 1)
91.9 WRQ (this is a Montreal Jazz station)
92.5 WSE (this is CFQR)
93.5 WZJ (this is CBC Radio 2)

And this goes on and on with all the Canadian Stations. What is up with that? Is it because the Canadian stations are not sending their proper call letters. Or are they using a different RDS data stream?
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