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post #16 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-05-06, 08:34 PM
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Try this link:

http://www.hdradio.com/

Looks like most of the FM market in Buffalo is using it now.

As to whether there's a combined HD / DAB radio, I seem to remember Radioscape, who make pre-assemblies for industry, have, or are creating a module that does AM, FM, DAB, HD Radio, and I think DRM (Digital Radio Mondale) as well. Don't quote me on that .

In Canada, the CRTC has relaxed the rules pertaining to DAB station licensing. We'll see if there's any new takers to the new rules.

I tend to prefer DAB, as I've been listening to it now since December, 2003. And, when engineered correctly, it sounds great.

I haven't checked the latest receiver prices for HD radio, but as with any new medium, the price is high. I hope this has changed.

Cameron
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post #17 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-05-08, 06:50 PM
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I would think only STAR 102.5 would come in HD from Buffalo.All the other stations have adjacent channel problems in the GTA and since HD radio is using the sidebands of the analog signal for digital.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #18 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-05-08, 08:22 PM
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All the other stations have adjacent channel problems in the GTA and since HD radio is using the sidebands of the analog signal for digital
What do you mean by that? I get a lot of the Buffalo stations, like 98.5 in my car no issue...
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post #19 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-05-08, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by alebowgm View Post
What do you mean by that? I get a lot of the Buffalo stations, like 98.5 in my car no issue...
Back in the late '80's I had a ride down in a rental truck that had a mono AM-FM radio. It had this amazing FM tuner that had selectivity close to the super narrow setting of a McIntosh MR-80. Even in downtown Toronto, I could pop up and down one channel (200KHz) away from any station from the CN tower and usually got minimal adjacent channel interference, or just noise. Distant stations came in clearly. We had 95.3 (Hamilton) almost into Belleville, then it came back in near Kingston. Just before we got to Belleville, from Toronto, I tried CHEZ (Ottawa) and... There it was, not bad either. We lost it again but it started coming back in (more or less) as we turned off the 401 onto (I think) 15 or 16.

Still doesn't beat 1981: Sansui TU-9900, 6 element beam pointed SE, listening to ZBM Hamilton Bermuda (got that one on cassette, an entire newscast too). "Brought to you by the Bank of Bermuda".

Cameron
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post #20 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-05-08, 10:21 PM
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Yes 98.5 is clear in Toronto.There is 98.5 from Kitchener.Buffalo stations with interference problems are 106.5,92.9,104.1,103.3,94.5,93.7,96.1,96.9.The 106.5 is totally blocked with Toronto station on same freq.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #21 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-05-09, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by rob50312 View Post
Yes 98.5 is clear in Toronto.There is 98.5 from Kitchener.Buffalo stations with interference problems are 106.5,92.9,104.1,103.3,94.5,93.7,96.1,96.9.The 106.5 is totally blocked with Toronto station on same freq.
92.9 - closest adjacent is 93.1 Barrie. That shouldn't be a problem

93.7 - closest adjacent is 93.5 low power from Toronto, can be a definite problem

94.5 - closest adjacent is 94.7 Hamilton / Burlington. That could be problem

96.1 - closest adjacent is 96.3 Toronto (not CN Tower), had recently upped power (within the last year, now a powerhouse) that will definitly be a problem

96.9 - nothing adjacent on either 96.7 (Kitchener) or 97.1 (Belleville) that I know of. 97.3 is Toronto, but that's 400KHz alternate and shouldn't be a problem.

98.5 - Clear as you report, but note: 98.1 Toronto (CN Tower) is 400KHz alternate spacing... Me suspects other factors at play in the 96.9 problem.

103.3 - closest adjacents (2) are 102.9 Hamilton, 103.5 Toronto (or more precisely slightly north of Toronto) Both could be problems

104.1 - closest adjacent - 103.9 Toronto low power (deviation is set a touch high I notice which could aggravate things) 104.5 is Toronto CN Tower, but again, that's 400KHz adjacent

106.5 - Co-Channel - 106.5 Toronto. Receiver's capture ratio will take care of any chance of out of town signals. In case of an inversion (enhanced reception), in stereo (which technically has a much much lower capture ratio anyway) you'll hear additional distortion and background "racket" that follows the modulation patterns of the other (in this case) Buffalo station. That's why no-one is honest enough to even think of stating their stereo capture ratios... The figures would look terrible. Not a fault, just inherent in the FM stereo mode of broadcast and reception technology.

You kinda got a long winded response, but to others who aren't in such a congested radio enviornment, which the corridor from Pickering through Toronto, to Hamilton is, and Toronto north to an extent, can place horrendous demands on even the best in tuner design. What was interesting is, back in '92 I took a trip to England, and took along a pocket AIWA thin FM radio. Here in the Hamilton - Toronto area, it overloaded a lot, but had good adjacent channel rejection. In England, it operated flawlessly, everywhere. They don't use anywhere as much power, and had good coverage. Here, the days of 100KW assignments are pretty much gone, except in northern or unpopulated areas that need a flame-thrower to cover a large geographic area. Lower powers allow more stations, with less coverage.

Cameron
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post #22 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-05-09, 06:27 PM
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Thumbs down

Further to reception problems with Buffalo fm in GTA.96.9 has Humber college radio,North Etobicoke 10 to 15km range.In Mississauga 98.5 is replaced by the Kitchener station from Miss. rd and 401 west.92.9 is unlistenable in Mississauga with the new Halimond area station.So that leaves 102.5 as the only possible HD radio station from Buffalo since the digital signal is on the sides of the analog signal for me in Mississauga.Too many stations in the area ,poor management by Industry Canada and the CRTC.Everytime a new station comes on it blocks the reception of 2 adjacent channels.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #23 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-05-09, 06:37 PM
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I guess basically the answer therefore lies it depends on where exactly you are in the GTA, as results are for sure going to vary...
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post #24 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-05-09, 09:10 PM
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I wasn't aware of the Humber College station at 96.9.

If it weren't for the 20KW signal less than a quarter mile away from CIWV, 94.7MHz, I'd probably be fine with a lot more distant stations.

On pocket radios, most interference is comprised of 94.7 Hamilton, and some mixing of various Toronto stations with themselves and 94.7. This shows just how strong stuff from Toronto comes in here. In fact, 94.7 even causes background noise on 95.3 Hamilton, and that's 100KW from the other side of the building, but only slightly further away.

Add a little inversion, and Colberg comes in well, Rochester (89.9) and 106.3 from Eastern Ontario somewhere, or Quebec, not sure exactly.

Way too much receiver overload for serious sporadic-E reception, unfortunately.

Cameron
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post #25 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-10-24, 09:54 AM
 
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Any updates, and are any Torotno stations braodcast in digital?
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post #26 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-10-24, 06:08 PM
 
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They're almost all broadcasting in DAB digital. Nobody's broadcasting in HD. Nobody's applied. No radios are available in Canada.
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post #27 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-10-24, 07:18 PM
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IBOC in Canada

per an announcement by Industry Canada on Oct 12, 2007:

Quote:
The Department continues its commitment to afford Canadians the highest quality and variety of broadcasting services. At this time, the Department is of the view that experimentation with hybrid digital radio (IBOC) broadcasting would be beneficial to Canadian broadcasters and to the Canadian public.

In the United States, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) has introduced hybrid in-band on-channel (IBOC) digital radio in both the FM and AM bands. Over 1 300 FM stations have been authorized to broadcast digital radio. These are all provisional operations, as the FCC has not yet enacted a permanent set of rules and procedures. On the consumer side, digital receivers are available at major U.S. retailers.

The Department is now prepared to consider applications for experimental hybrid digital radio authorizations for existing FM radio broadcasting undertakings in Canada. At this time, it has been decided not to extend experimental authorizations to AM undertakings, as this would be premature.

Future actions

Should these experiments prove successful, Industry Canada will work with the public and private broadcasting industry to develop the required technical regulations in order to accommodate hybrid digital radio on a more permanent basis.

Mike / technut
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post #28 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-10-27, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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FM Radio Antennas for HD Radio

FM radio signals travel very similarly to VHF-lo band TV signals, meaning long distances and fairly good penetration through forests, urban centres, etc.

HD radio receivers have multipath interference rejection qualities similar to those of ATSC OTA digital TV receivers, so no matter where you are in Southern Ontario or the BC Lower Mainland, if you can get Buffalo's or SeaTac's regular FM radio stations you will get the HD ones.

If you already have a CM4228 OTA TV antenna pointed at Buffalo or SeaTac you can split off a coax lead to an HD Radio receiver and likely get solid, reliable FM reception in my own personal experience, due to a quirk of its design. The CM4221 or other UHF antennas won't help you much for FM, unfortunately.

If you already have a VHF yagi or VHF/UHF combo yagi up there then you are already set for splitting off FM.

If you want to put up a specific FM Radio antenna you should check out Delhi's 2 models. One is the omnidirectional dual-perpendicular-dipole C667M and the other is the directional QFM-9 Yagi. Channel Master has stopped making FM-only antennas, but Winegard continues to make the 6000 yagi and the 6010 omni.
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post #29 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-10-27, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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HD FM and DAB FM stations in the Vancouver-SeaTac area

Gord Lansdell provides an up-to-date listing of all HD FM and DAB FM stations broadcasting in the Vancouver-SeaTac area on his great web site:

http://members.shaw.ca/nwbroadcasters/digitalradio.htm
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post #30 of 476 (permalink) Old 2007-10-28, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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HD FM radio stations in Detroit

Quote:
Get a sneak preview of high-definition radio in Detroit

Daily Oakland Press, August 15, 2005
By: Art Vuolo

Last week, my colleague Mike Austerman reported on the debut of HD (high-definition) radio in Detroit. Besides offering a high quality digital version of a station’s signal, HD allows for “secondary” channels that can offer more specialized programming than their primary stations — all in the battle with satellite radio for listeners. Two years ago, the mammoth Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas offered a taste of HD, but I just experienced it locally and want to share what I saw and heard because it is impressive.
http://www.michiguide.com/archives20...f_highdef.html
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