DAB Radio in Canada - Page 5 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #61 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-21, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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It's nice to hear someone else is listening to DAB. I'm surprised you are having so much success with the Perstel. I tried it for a week and it was a big failure. I am near downtown Toronto and have been listening for about 6 years on an Arcam tuner. I agree with much of what you said and have found the different volume levels very frustrating, especially on JAZZFM and EZROCK. I tried repeatedly to bring the problem to the attention of those involved in DAB but have had only limited success.
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post #62 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-21, 04:55 PM
 
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CHUM could give DAB/Canada a steroid shot in the arm (or is it arse?) if they would get their terrestrial subscription network up and running. They said they would do it, then they said they would not because the two SDARS companies were approved, last I heard was that they "might". A CHUM subscription radio receiver would be able to hear all Canadian DAB broadcasts, with or without an active subscription account. All DAB radios sold in Canada should include the ability to open a CHUM account.
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post #63 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-21, 05:12 PM
 
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I posted this in another DHC thread, but here it is again:

CHUM could give DAB/Canada a steroid shot in the arm (or is it arse?) if they would get their terrestrial subscription network up and running. They said they would do it, then they said they would not because the two SDARS companies were approved, last I heard was that they "might". A CHUM subscription radio receiver would be able to hear all Canadian DAB broadcasts, with or without an active subscription account. All DAB radios sold in Canada should include the ability to open a CHUM account.

Last edited by ai4i; 2006-03-21 at 05:21 PM.
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post #64 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-22, 01:51 AM
 
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I also had a DR101 that shut down every 3 minutes. I gave up and took it back because the reception (line of sight) to the Vancouver north shore mtns was just terrible. I think they are allowed only 200w ERP which is not nearly enough at that high frequency. (1.4G) Somewhere way back I did a review of it.

Bev 9200
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post #65 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-22, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryston
I'm still hanging in there Arthur. It still sounds good, but I can't find any info on where it's headed or what the future holds for DAB in Canada. I've had XM Radio since it was introduced in Canada and the sound quality is way better on DAB.
Can you elaborate just what's wrong with the XM audio? And which DAB station sounds better?

The CRTC recently issued a consultation process for a review of the broadcasting of radio in Canada, and in it still clearly stated the direction of digitizing radio broadcasting. That process had, I think, a time frame for responses that was eons too short. Been tied up with the logistics of a move and thus didn't have time for an indepth commontary. (I have a lot to say...)

Needless to say, the DAB roll-out really was a poor showing by all parties concerned. I didn't hear anyone use the 14 hour a week allowed by the CRTC for DAB specific programming. Technical implementation is haphazard to some degree, the receiver needed more thorough testing before going to market (like the seek tuning doesn't work on DAB). But listening to CBC (best audio on Radio 2) has yeilded some really enjoyable listening. BTW, the Perstel DR101 will go out to 256KB/s, according to the manual. Now, that would have been nice to hear.

And now for the easter egg...

While listening to a DAB station, place the highlight on the bottom display line, and press and hold the middle button. You'll get a BER (bit error display) on the bottom line, showing right down to the finial error count) a continous display of the error count. This turns out to be extremely usefull for fine-tuning a sweet spot. When you get a display of BER 0.000 you're getting perfect (as far as corrected errors go) reception.

That's on the Perstel DR101. This easter-egg has been confirmed to work on UK models as well.

Have fun.

Now... Back to some DAB listening...

Cameron
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post #66 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-22, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Just some quick responses to your comments, CamDAB.
1) DAB has a sharper, clearer, more detailed sound.
2) The Canadian Association of Broadcasters(CAB) has prepared a response for the CRTC review. Anyone interested should go to www.cab-acr.ca
Their response to digital broadcasting was brief but I got the impression they want to move away from DAB to something more like IBOC.
3) Regarding the Perstel's ability to go to 256k/s. In the summer of 2001 CBC tried a bit rate of 256, but my Arcam reciever was not able to handle it(224 is the limit). A call to the person in charge of DAB at the CBC was all it took to get that changed.
4) The bit rate error function also exists on the Arcam.
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post #67 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-22, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryston
Just some quick responses to your comments, CamDAB.
1) DAB has a sharper, clearer, more detailed sound.
2) The Canadian Association of Broadcasters(CAB) has prepared a response for the CRTC review. Anyone interested should go to www.cab-acr.ca
Their response to digital broadcasting was brief but I got the impression they want to move away from DAB to something more like IBOC.
3) Regarding the Perstel's ability to go to 256k/s. In the summer of 2001 CBC tried a bit rate of 256, but my Arcam reciever was not able to handle it(224 is the limit). A call to the person in charge of DAB at the CBC was all it took to get that changed.
4) The bit rate error function also exists on the Arcam.
Thanks for the info.

Interesting on the sound differences.
I remember there was a receiver (I can't remember the brand) that apparently topped out at 192KB/s. Thus, I think a maximum datarate should be mandated for both receivers and ensemble transmitters.
Also trials of the DAB2 (or whatever it's going to be called) with AAC or AAC+ codec should be done with various protection levels. The sooner some consensus is reached, the better.

Cameron
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post #68 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-22, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HornHonker
I also had a DR101 that shut down every 3 minutes. I gave up and took it back because the reception (line of sight) to the Vancouver north shore mtns was just terrible. I think they are allowed only 200w ERP which is not nearly enough at that high frequency. (1.4G) Somewhere way back I did a review of it.
I kept track of the serial numbers of both the current 101 and the previous one that did the shutdown thing.

It would be interesting had you kept the S/N and see if they came from the same batch lot.

Mine that did that ran pretty warm, and even did it with the CN tower at close range. Obviously a faulty radio.

Cameron
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post #69 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-23, 01:05 AM
 
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It also sucked batteries, only 2 hours on a new set.

Bev 9200
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post #70 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-03-23, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HornHonker
It also sucked batteries, only 2 hours on a new set.
Big time too.

On FM, the unit is OK on battery usage.

On DAB, now that's a different story. It seems to have two modes of operation, the first one just after it's turned on, and a second mode after 2-3 minutes of hunting for an ensemble it switches to a real power-guzzling mode that can be determined with a good pair of phones. The radio "thumps" softly, but each thump has a slightly different sound, and the timing changes.

A "less bassy" thump happends, then a short pause, then a more muffled deeper thump happends, then a long pause, then the other thump occurrs. My testing seems to point to the following:

After the deep thump, the radio is tuning and searching for a data stream.
After the "less bassy" thump, the radio seems to clear it's memory, then the deeper thump occurrs. Emsemble tuning does seem more accurate in this power-guzzling mode too.

I also suspect, that after the radio switches to this mode, it searches all the frequencies used world-wide, on the indicated ensemble. But can't confirm this behavour.

The radio, in my estimation, is just begging for impovement. It's got a great form-factor, is easy to use, and when fed a good signal, either FM or DAB, sounds fantastic.

I'd sure like to get into the programming of it. I suspect it needs some tweaking. :-)

Cameron
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post #71 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-04-25, 03:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryston
I got the impression they want to move away from DAB to something more like IBOC.
iBOC is a sorry arse excuse for digital radio.
Engineers outside the United States universally agree that its whole purpose of being is political, not technological.
DAB@1.4GHz is twentyfirst century terrestrial digital radio; iBOC is something less.
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post #72 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-04-26, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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That may be true ai4i, however there is much dissatisfaction in Britain(the world leader in DAB) regarding the compromising of sound quality to fit more channels.
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post #73 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-04-26, 06:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryston
...the compromising of sound quality to fit more channels.
The same will happen as FM stations add HD-3, HD-4, HD-5, etc.
XM boards are alive with complaints about how the system, originally designed for a hundred channels, is looking to double that number. Quantity seems to be winning over quality. It is not whether one chooses DAB, iBOC, ISDB-Tsb, or anything else, but how greedy they become with their limited bandwidth.
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post #74 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-05-01, 08:57 PM
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I prefer DRM and DRM+ for free radio in Canada. My reasons:
1. DRM+ is an extension of the current DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) system. Currently, DRM only goes up to 30 MHz (AM and shortwave bands). DRM+ will operate on frequencies up to 120 MHz, which includes the current FM band (88 to 108 MHz) and frequencies between 45 and 70 MHz. DRM will take less power than DAB and therefore, a lower cost.
2. DRM is a more advanced, and more recent, technology than DAB. Therefore, DRM and DRM+ takes less bandwidth than DAB to offer the same sound quality. In the UK, DAB is critized due to a high number of stations (30 to 50) and a sound quality judged considerably worse than FM on most stations.
3. According to CBC's intervention on the CRTC public hearing that will start May 15th about the review of the commercial radio policy, the CBC says that HD Radio is not appropriate for digital radio due to complicated coordinations that would be required. Even if CBC would consider DAB, DMB and DVB-H for radio, I would prefer DRM and DRM+.
I have a link to a PDF file submitted by CBC in response to the public hearing notice. The thoughts on digital radio status start at page 19.
http://support.crtc.gc.ca/applicant/...C/Radio-Canada (when on this web page, click on the link)

Last edited by JSP; 2006-05-01 at 09:24 PM.
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post #75 of 364 (permalink) Old 2006-05-01, 11:17 PM
 
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Interesting article. DRM+ reads well (sounds good). It also appears to be good for the dental industry!

Poor audio is not a product of the type of technology, rather the way in which it is implemented. A government can require a minimum amount of bandwidth per stream or a maximum number of streams per unit of bandwidth.

Technology is progressing so quickly that their is too much lag time for the latest technology to ever be implemented. Some administrations are talking about providing a digital radio service in the low VHF band - an idea that I would not approve of.

Does anyone know about the uniquely Japanese ISDB-Tsb system?
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