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LG LRH 890 HDD/DVD Recorder Discussion

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#1 ·
Further to some of the early reports on the LRH-890 (2007's replacement to the LRH-790), I can report the following (my unit's manufacture date is April 2007, purchased Sept 15, 2007 @ FutureShop, so earlier models may or may not have the same firmware):

1) fast dubbing of EDITED material - WORKS just fine. Make sure you are using the correct recording media. The manual states on page 52 (bottom of first column):

"When you dub the title on the HDD to VR mode
DVD-RW or DVD-RAM disc, the [Fast] mode is not
available for edited HDD title and Clip Recording
title."

I used a DVD+RW and a DVD+R, and it worked at exactly the speeds reported in the table on page 51. -RW's and -RAM's won't work.

2) FF/RW of DivX material - works fine just as it does with MPEG1/MPEG2 material. Make sure you are using the << and >> keys and not the |<< >>| or the navigator/cursor keys. Also, regarding DivX playback, this unit can play old/odd encodes that my previous unit (Daytek DVR-950s) would not, and scales everything perfectly to fill the screen with no black bars all around (another problem the Daytek had, it could not fill the screen with anything less than 640 pixels wide). And the processing done in the LG unit on DivX material is phenomenal in my opinion - stuff that looks marginal when played back on a computer screen looks outstanding on the LG unit - I don't know what they are doing, but it's definitely working!

3) S-video in: no, it doesn't have it, but, at least in my experience, a good quality composite cable (2' short or less, gold machined ends, ultra shielded, 100% oxygen free, true 75 ohms, etc) produces a sharper picture than S-video does anyway. S-video looks softer, blurrier. I tried a 'blind' test with my wife, she can see the difference and agrees. It might be our outstanding TV that makes this difference due to it's internal digital processing (Sony KV32HS510), but it doesn't seem to matter what we connect to it and thru what - the Computer's ATI Radeon output, a DVD player, the Shaw DCT, all direct in or going thru other devices - they all look sharper with composite, s-video looks blurrier. YMMV, depends on your TV I guess.

4) Picture quality - I connected it with RGB component cables and immediately set it to 480p output. During the day, picture looked great. At night I noticed it looked a little blurrier than the Shaw DCT direct to the TV (not terrible mind you, but noticeable enough to bug me). I was somewhat disappointed. Then I started tinkering and switched it back to 480i, and again, just as my experience with s-video vs. composite, it was noticeably sharper. It's probably the Sony's "DRC" (Digital Reality Creation) interacting with the digital processing of the LG unit converting to progressive - 2 layers of digital processing appear to wash out the picture a bit. On the Sony HDTV, the picture is better and flicker free at 480i, so I don't need to use 480p, obviously the Sony is better at converting, filtering and sharpening the picture than the recorder is. You may experience different results with you own TV, so !!EXPERIMENT!! I was fooled into jumping to what are often presumed to be the 'best' settings, and found it was not necessarily so in my case. Let your (or your wife's) eyes be the judge.

5) It has DivX/MPEG4 recording capability, but why you would want to use it and why they included it other than as a novelty, I don't know. You cannot chase-play your recording in MPEG4 as you can in MPEG2. You cannot edit (split, combine, a/b delete) your MPEG4 recordings. Your cannot copy them off the unit to a disc. You cannot use MPEG4 for timer recordings. You cannot easily switch back and forth from MPEG2 to MPEG4 mode (IE, it's not simple for one time use), you have to to into the main setup and either toggle MPEG4 mode on or off, in which case it's used until you switch it again, so basically it's for manual recording where you have time to fiddle with switching the settings. To make it simpler to use, they should have made the 'Recording Mode' button on the remote cycle thru all available MPEG2 modes and then switch to MPEG4 modes, but it doesn't. Regarding quality, in SP mode, MPEG4 recording uses about 1gb/hour (258hour capacity on the 250gb disc), which is roughly equivalent to the data rate used for MPEG2 in LP mode, but the MPEG4 recordings at that rate are noticeably blocky and look much worse than MPEG2 at LP mode. So, like I said, I don't see anyone actually using this mode a lot, since it has some pretty crippled functionality and no real quality or space advantage.

6) User interface - it is *very* good compared to my previous recorder (Daytek DVR-950s) which was a total piece of crap. Every menu on the Daytek unit was written with different shades of screen background color, different fonts, different screen (off)centering, and poor engrish and navigating the menus to get to often used functions was a pain. On the Daytek unit, the timer settings (probably the *most* used function on a device like this) was burried 3 levels deep in the main setup menu, and once you got there, setting a timer was very painful due to the way the interface was configured. The LG unit is way better, I have no real complaints on this end, it looks professionally designed, is pleasing to the eye and very simple and intuitive to navigate. Timer recordings are easily accessed and equally easy to setup. Settings for daily, weekly, individual days, weekends, etc are readily available if you scroll *backward* when you are in the record-date box.

Another small but key detail is that the LG unit defaults to the Harddrive as the playback and record source when you turn it on, which is the way it should be IMO, but not necessarily so - the damned Daytek unit *always* defaulted to the DVD, and had to be set manually to the HDD every time you used it. Who the heck buys a HDD recorder to use discs as the primary recording and playback source??? LG got this right.

7) Recording quality - MPEG2 mode at SP (2hr/disc, 2.1gb/hr) is indistinguishable from the source (digital cable). No interlacing/deinterlacing artifacts or other similar issues (the Daytek unit had a huge problem with that). No need to go to 1hr/disc, I cannot see the difference with recorded Digital Cable. In 4hr mode the quality difference from the source is *barely* noticeable, you have to think about it to see it, but it's still significantly better than VHS tape, and recorded digital cable in this mode is also way better than the same channel live in analog. I use SP for stuff I want to keep (classic movies from TCM mainly), and LP for daily recordings, nascar races, etc. that will get deleted after watching them.

Recording so far has mainly been done with the Shaw DCT and all-digital channels. But the analog internal tuner on the LG box goes thru it's internal digital filtering process, and it really does improve the recorded picture quality, it cleans out all of the grain from the analog channels if that's your only source, you will not be disappointed with the recording quality as far as my tests go.

8) CPRM - yes, it suffers from this just like all new recorders do and will. Get a video stabilizer if it's an issue. Funny thing though - when I first set it up, I was able to record Movie Central for the first hour or so, then after that it started with the copy protect messages. Must be something about the initialization process that takes a while to kick in.

9) one image quality quirk, this may or may not be a big deal for you depending on your sensitivity to it and your setup's ability to deal with it - black levels are not factory set correctly on this unit. Anything it plays back (it's own tuner, inputs passed thru AV1, DVD output, et.) show blacks as very dark grey, not pure black. This looks to be very similar to what is referred to as the VMR9 bug on PC's that took most video card manufacturers over a year to address in drivers when XP first came out. You won't notice it during the day, but definitely will at night. This appears to ONLY be an issue with the output section of the unit, as recorded material that is copied to disc and viewed on another dvd player shows black properly, so at least the recordings are not affected. The Daytek unit also had this issue, however it recorded all material like that too, so if you copied off and watched on an unaffected DVD drive, it still looked washed out. Like I said, the LG's recordings don't appear to be affected, just it's output. Luckily the Sony TV has multiple picture settings, so I have one set with the contrast up 2 clicks and brightness down 2 clicks which fixes this issue, but it would be nice if LG would fix this in a firmware update. I've e-mailed them to ask and am waiting for a response.

10) remote control - I know it sounds picky to be concerned about the remote, but, again, after the using Daytek unit's disasterous attempt at one, it's pretty important - the LG's is great - no issues at all. Key placement, labelling, and organization are all well thought out. Plus it has basic TV controls too, which are a very nice plus to be able to turn on the TV, select the DVDR's imput and control volume all from one unit. Well done LG.

That's it for initial impressions. I am quite happy with this unit so far (was on sale this week for $399 CDN), and the guys a FutureShop were *GREAT*, taking back the buggy and poorly implemented Daytek DVR-950s after 8 months (I got it for Christmas) and letting me upgrade to the LG unit without any issue at all. That is outstanding customer service!

The REAL Joe
 
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#2 ·
1) fast dubbing of EDITED material - WORKS just fine.

Whoa, that is great news. Hmm, wonder if they bothered firmware fixing it so the older 780/790s can do this ... (I've got a 780).


the guys a FutureShop were *GREAT*, taking back the buggy and poorly implemented Daytek DVR-950s after 8 months (I got it for Christmas) and letting me upgrade to the LG unit without any issue at all.

Hmm, wow, I wouldn't expect that, nor would I have even bothered trying.


One thing: some dude at the FS site posted a review on either the 880 or 890, and stated that it records mono from the tuner (Note that this is often referred to as "mono tuner", which isn't the case. The tuner is stereo. It just records in mono). If you have the time, can you check this? It would be strange, since the 780 records stereo from the tuner. I think of the 880 and 890 as being the same base units, with the 890 having more features.

Thanks for the info.
 
#3 ·
LRH-890

Hi... maybe someone will be able to help me.

I bought the LG LRH-890 a couple of months ago at "Ameublement Tanguay" (a friend of the family made me a great price) and I am happy with it (or at least I was happy). I have been able to record my fave shows and I can download a show from the internet and play it on the player because it can read DiVX. Tuesday night, my friend asked me to record the pilot of a new show so I did record it on the HDD. Since, I have been trying to copy it onto a DVD+R or DVD+RAM and it is not working at all. It is my first time trying to copy something from the HDD to a disc and now, I am getting angry at my player/recorder. I put a blank disc into the recorder, I push copy like the manual says and I always get the same message "change the disc". After that I have to press "yes/ok" and I go back to step one. I don't see the menu to start the recording. I read the manual and I have tried different discs but the same thing always happens. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Thank you for your help.

P.S. I am really not good with technology so I tried to explain my problem the best way I could... English is also not my first language.

Thank you very much!
 
#4 ·
@moviedom78:

You have to FORMAT the disc first, otherwise the dubbing interface sees it as non-recordable and says "change the disc".

The formatting routine is in the main setup menu. Once it's formatted, then you can dub or fast copy to the disc. (That was one of the only nice things about the Daytek unit - whenever you inserted a blank disc, it immediately recognized it and popped up a window asking if you wanted to format it. The LG units don't seem to have such a capability, I guess they just expect you to remember to format manually each time.)


UPDATE ON RECORDING QUALITY:

I noticed last night that everything that I record has a weird anomaly that I can only describe as bright and dark flashes. When you watch the recorded material, periodically (once or twice every minute or 2) the screen appears to get noticeably brighter for just a fraction of a second, sometimes preceeded by it going darker for a fraction of a second. Happens most often at drastic scene changes. I didn't notice it the first day or 2 on the weekend watching during the day, but started to notice it when watching in a dark room at night. At first it was just something subconscious that made my brain go "something's not right", then after I started to pay attention and look for it, I realized that it's occurring all the time in the recordings.

I watched the playback frame-by-frame, and indeed, there are 3 frames at each occurrence where in the first one the picture gets a little brighter, in the second one it gets a lot brighter and in the third it is the same as the first, then back to normal. At full speed, like I said, it's a very brief flicker, but now that I know it's there, it *REALLY* bugs me.

As a further test, I watched a segment that I was recording from the digital cable box direct thru the TV in a dark room with close scrutiny, and *never* saw this effect over 10 minutes. Then I watched the recording, and there it was, over and over again.

Could someone else please test this and let me know if you see it too, maybe it's just my machine with a flakey digitizer or encoder? If you're going to look for it though, remember it's got to be in a dark room. It also seems to happen or at least be more noticeable in darker scenes. You can REALLY see it if the program is wide screen. When you notice a subtle flash in the screen, pause it, and use the 1/16 speed rewind and focus on the black bar at the top - you should see it go from black to a lighter shade of grey and back if it's occurring.

Thanks - I'll test the stereo tuner issue tonight and report back.

/The REAL Joe
 
#6 ·
When you use the dubbing menu, it gives you options for all of the unit's recording quality settings: XP, SP, EP, etc. At the end of the list it gives you an option for Fast Copy. If it's recording in real time, you probably selected one of those quality pre-sets.

Unless you are trying to resize a recording (for example you recorded something at a high quality setting and it ended up being 6gb file size on the HDD and now you want to fit it onto a 4.3gb disc) you should NOT select any of the pre-sets, because that re-encodes or re-compresses the original file at those settings, so you end up with a degraded picture because of 2x compression, plus the slow real time recording.

Fast Copy will just do a bit-by-bit copy of the file from the HDD to the disc, but you can only use that if the file is smaller than the disc's capacity. If it is just marginally too large, rather than reencode it, it would probably be better to split the file and delete the beginning and/or end credits to make it a bit smaller so you can keep the original quality and use fast copy.

Cheers
The REAL Joe
 
#7 ·
LRH-890 Quality Update #2

1) It definitely records stereo from the internal tuner. I recorded several source channels. If whoever said it doesn't actually heard mono, they have their player hooked up to a mono amplifier.

2) "Light and Dark flashes" - I returned the first unit with a manufacture date of April 2007, and got a replacement manufactured in May 2007. It does *exactly* the same thing.

to recap: Anything it records has these brief light and dark flashes, most noticeable after scene changes, but not necessarily. Usually occur once every minute or two. Most times just one or two flashes, but sometimes 5 or 6 in a row. Very irritating. Note these are not total white-out's or black-out's, but a group of 3 or so frames that are either, say 25% or so lighter or darker, as if you increased and/or decreased your brightness several clicks. At full speed it looks like a flicker, at slow motion each occurrence is clearly spread over 3 frames.

It seems to do it most noticeably over the inputs, but it also does it on the internal tuner. I'm fairly certain It is NOT my particular setup. The Motorola DCT 2500 cable box has 2 outputs (one composite, one SVideo), SVid goes directly to the TV, Comp to the LRH-890. I watched a 10 minute segment I was recording live from the DCT direct to the TV with close scrutiny and never saw one flicker. Then I watched the recording, and they were there.

I tried swapping the DCT's output that I connect to the recorder using a barrel-type svideo to composite converter just to make sure it's not the composite output on the DCT, same thing happens - looks perfect direct to TV, but records flickers on LRH-890. I tried 3 different cables - the cheap one that comes with the unit; a better one that came with an ATI AIW card, and a high end one that cost around $30 with machined gold ends and has an ultra-shielded cable about 1/4" in diameter - none make any difference. I tried both the front and back inputs on the recorder, no difference. I tried a different source (inputting the output of a VCR and recording a tape on the LRH-890) and it does the same thing.

And, actually, it's not just the recordings, you can see it happening on the screen when watching the LRH-890 live, so I think I've narrowed it down to the internal video digitizer as the problem.

It would be *very* much appreciated if someone with a discerning eye who has the same unit would also test theirs and look for this problem. Like I said, it does the same thing on the 2 units I've tried.

Other than that, I *really* like this unit and want to keep it, but with a major quality glitch like that, it's not likely. Without the picture quality, this unit (or any other) is not worth $400+. And watching anything that I record flicker periodically like that drives me absolutely nuts!

Many thanks to anyone else who chimes in,
The REAL Joe
 
#8 ·
LRH-890 Quality Update #3

On the "flickering recorded video" problem:

I called LG's 1-888 tech support number, and detailed out to them exactly the steps I took to troubleshoot this problem, which lead me to surmise that it is the digitizer in the unit that is at fault. Surprisingly, they said, "Yes, we know what the problem is, the unit needs a firmware update, but you have to take it to the service center to have it applied." Apparently all units currently in stores have this problem, so exchanging the unit (as I tried) doesn't resolve the issue.

I tried several different calls back getting different technicians to ask them to send me the firmware disc or a download link, and they all held the party line - end users cannot have the firmware update, it HAS to go to the service center.

So I called all of the local authorized service centers, and they all said they have to have the unit for a week to 10 days to diagnose what I and LG already know is the problem, and then finally perform the 5 minute fix. No flexibility in this, although they all feel for the customer who shelled out $400 for a unit of which all currently available stock is defective, and cannot be made properly functional without a trip to the service center along with it's inherent wait.

So, as a (perspective) customer of this product, you have 2 choices:

(1) you either want or are prepared to live with flickering recordings or,
(2) you want to spend $400, but not be able to actually use the unit for a couple of weeks after you buy it.

(I guess there is a 3rd option, which is to purchase another brand, I've read many good things about the Panasonic DMR-EH55, and if this LG unit doesn't work out, I'm going to try that one next)

POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE LG!! Every other manufacturer makes their firmware updates available to their customers when they have to fix a poorly implemented design that was their fault, not expect their customers to jump thru hoops to get their expensive product functioning properly.

LG should be more understanding of the customers and their needs rather than just trying to minimize their own risk.

I guess I'll try the service center and hope it actually fixes the problem, but had I known that all store stock was going to be defective out of the box, I would have started with another brand in the first place. I'm only giving this unit a second chance because other than the flickering video quality glitch, it really is a nicely implemented user interface with a lot of other good features. But that said, I won't buy LG ever again, and like I said, if the firmware update doesn't fix the problem, I'm moving to Panasonic...

Cheers
The REAL Joe
 
#9 ·
I noticed last night that everything that I record has a weird anomaly that I can only describe as bright and dark flashes.

I get the bright flashes when recording via tuner on my 780, too. I think it only happens on certain stations, though. I bought a second unit, manufactured a couple of months later, and it was the same thing. No flashes with the LiteOn clone I had previous.

I'm pretty sure I don't get the flashes when I record a VHS from the composite inputs.



Hmm, didn't know about the firmware fix. Yep, really stupid on LG for not providing the firmware update online. But since the problem has been occuring even with my older model, I somehow doubt that a firmware update will fix the problem.

For the price difference of mine over other units, I could live with the flashing problem.
 
#10 ·
I went to futureshop last night to see if they had any new stock with later manufacture dates, hoping to exchange yet again rather than send it to the service center to sit on someone's workbench for 2 weeks. There were none on the shelves. I asked the sales guy about them and he groaned - he said just about every one they sold while they've been on sale the last 2 weeks has come back because of the bright/dark flash problem. He said he won't recommend LG's to anyone anymore because of the problem with the whole lot of them, and LG's poor customer service (his words, not mine!).

I think I'm going to cough up an extra $100 and go for the Pioneer DVR-650H.

/The REAL Joe
 
#12 ·
Hello

I am NOT a new user to LG

I have been using the LG LRH-780 ( now the LRH-880 )for nearly 2 years now.

I just bought the LRH-890 4 days ago and I can't seem to record on disc directly

1) Tried the LG DVD-RW which came in the box- formatted when the disc was inserted and when I press Record ( after pressing DVD ) it only records to HDD

2) Its not a TV Program, its coming through AVI 1 and 2

3) Its not any copyright material

4) I tried a DVD+RW

5) I tried DVD+R

6) I have tried in VR Mode and Video Mode but nothing

I can play discs fine, I can record to HDD then DUB them fine but can't record directly

What am I doing wrong here?
 
#15 ·
This is very interesting

Can someone confirm if we can record ANYTHING on the Disc DIRECTLY

I called LG Support and the tech tells me I can't record anything to the Dsic directly

I said its not a TV program, its from a Satellite Box

He said none would work

I said, its HOME VIDEO from a VCR

He said that wouldnt record either

So is my unit screwed up or they are trying to tell me this unit CANNOT record on DVD directly

I was able to do all this on my LRH-780
 
#17 ·
cant play disc in another player?

can anyone help me?
So i bought the LG LRH-890 because of a sale, and recording onto HDD is fine. But now I want to transfer from HDD to DVD disc.

I put in the disc, select the show I want to copy over, select dubbing, leave it on default, XP, then start.

It finishes fine, and I can view the show from the disc via the LG LRH-890

But when I take the disc to my friend's place, it can't read the disc. I tried on the computer with any dvd drive, and it reads nothing on the disc?

do I need to select some format to have the disc readable on other dvd players? Not very technilogically advanced sorry
 
#21 ·
LG customer service is SO bad!

I bought the LRH-890 just a week ago. I had the same dubbing problem from HDD to DVD that was answered a few posts back.

I called The LG number today listed on my Canadian box and on my Canadian manual at approximately 5:30pm PST. I was on hold for about 20 minutes before a lady came online and said she would take down my name & number. Someone would call me back within the same day. After waiting 4 hours without a callback, I called the CANADIAN number again. This time I waited for more than 45 minutes before a customer service representative named "Teresa" came online. She immediately refused to help me, regardless of my question, because I was in Canada, and she was only customer service for the USA. No where, during the 45 minutes of hold music, that I had to endure, did it mention that I would not be helped because I was calling from CANADA. Teresa told me I needed to call between 8am-5pm MST. I asked if I could just ask a technical question and she replied no, even though I told her I had waited for over 45 minutes. I asked if I could speak to a supervisor and she said NO. I asked if there was ANYONE else I could speak with, and she said NO. According to her, and I quote, "There is no one here. I am the only person serving customer service across the whole USA. There is nothing I can help you with. You have to call back to Canada during normal business hours." She certainly did NOT make my LIFE GOOD but then again...she rules the USA!
It was not until I found this forum that I found my answer - and it was SO easy! Thanks everyone!
LG-USA customer service is awful!!!
 
#22 ·
can't format or finalize on LRH-890

:confused:Hey again! Wondering if anyone can help me with my LG. I can't seem to get it to work and tried everything suggested on this forum. Obviously their customer service was NO help!
I still can't record anything from the HDD to DVD. I use DVD+R. When I put in the DVD it doesn't give me the option to format. From the Settings>Disc menu, I can't get to the options to initialize or finalize. These options are not highlighted. The only thing I can select is PBC-on/off. I have to manually select "Initialize", either from the HDD menu or the Movies menu. But even after formtting it does not work. The DVD tray pops out again. I've tried 6 discs now (various brands) and the only 1 seem to be recognized. After rejoicing at my 1 out of 6 chances of success, I FAST recorded a program, only to find out that I cannot finalize. Again, the option is not highlighted. I've tried popping the disc in & out, but the machine doesn't even recognize it now. It just keeps telling me to "initialize" the disc.
What is going on? Is my machine defective or are there steps I'm missing in the recording process? The manual is not very clear regarding the precise steps needed to successfully record to DVD. Should I use a different format such as DVD-R? Or have I just got a lemon?
 
#23 ·
Help with making dvd copies of movies?

Hello there,

I have no problem copying from home-made dvds to the hard drive, then from the hard drive to a disc.

But I can't copy any of my store-bought movies - I am getting a message about copy protection.

When I purchased the LG LRH-880 HDD/DVD recorder from Future Shop, the sales guy told me that I could make back ups of my store-bought movies for personal use.

I went back to him and asked him specifically how to do this. He said that I had to find a code on the internet that would allow me to bypass the copy protection.

I wonder if he lied to me to make a sale?

If anyone out there knows how I can make back ups of my store-bought movies using this hdd/dvd recorder, could you please let me know? My son watches a few of his favorites over and over again, and I would like to have back ups for when they deteriorate.

Thanks so much.

B Kim
 
#25 ·
He said that I had to find a code on the internet that would allow me to bypass the copy protection.

I wonder if he lied to me to make a sale?



I've never heard of any player or recorder which can do this via a code -- only a code which can change regions.

He may not have lied; he may have just not known any better. In any case, FS has a pretty decent return policy that you can make use of, especially during the Christmas season.



I have no problem copying from home-made dvds to the hard drive, then from the hard drive to a disc.

Better to do it on a computer, if you want to keep the same menus/chapter points/etc.
 
#26 ·
Disc Format

I am wondering if the problem with recording (whatever) to DVD on these units might have to do with the need to format the disc. It seems to me that the only DVD types that would be capable of accepting "formatting" and then subsequently record a signal would be DVD+RW and maybe DVD-RAM. DVD+RW is the only disc type that can be used in the TASCAM DVR-1000 professional audio recorder that I have. I can't see how one could "format" a DVD-R or DVD+R and then use it to record. Once these types of discs are "written", in any way the only thing possible one would likely be able to add would be a TOC (table of contents). Am I wrong? I am not familiar with these units at all and use a Panasonic HD/DVD recorder at work but it doesn't require any disc formatting so I may well be off base here.
 
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