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Opinion: Blu-ray wins, no war

18K views 129 replies 43 participants last post by  Kevin270 
#1 ·
Editorial from Video Business' editor-and-chief and home entertainment editor for Variety.

Blu-ray wins, no war

Even top studio executives at the nearly lame-duck HD DVD camp are quietly conceding the victory to Blu-ray.
Gary
 
#105 ·
The HD-DVD format supports 1080p at 24 and 30 fps. The initial HD-DVD players will output 540p*, 720p and 1080i.

The Blu-ray format support 1080p at 24 fps. Every Blu-ray player announced will output 540p*, 720p, 1080i and 1080p.

* 540p only over non-HDCP connections if the Image Constraint Token is present.
 
#106 ·
Joxer said:
I guess I was considering things other than just studio support as well, although Gary's timeline does show a swing towards HD-DVD support no one has dropped Blue-ray - except Microsoft.
Microsoft was never really neutral.

I've been debating with one of the decision makers at Microsoft for two years, and he was negative toward Blu-ray all along. That Microsoft finally publically adopted his position, was not a surprise.

Microsoft's only demand to support Blu-ray, was for it to drop everything that made it Blu-ray.

Gary
 
#107 ·
Monk said:
The HD-DVD format supports 1080p at 24 and 30 fps. The initial HD-DVD players will output 540p*, 720p and 1080i.

The Blu-ray format support 1080p at 24 fps. Every Blu-ray player announced will output 540p*, 720p, 1080i and 1080p.

* 540p only over non-HDCP connections if the Image Constraint Token is present.
Samsung and Sony Blu-Ray player support 1080p at 24 fps and 60 fps, from what I remeber reading.
 
#108 ·
adit said:
Samsung and Sony Blu-Ray player support 1080p at 24 fps and 60 fps, from what I remeber reading.
The question is where will they get the 1080p24 content.

All films will be encoded at 1080p24. Some video will probably be 1080p30.

Many people are mixing the capabilities of the display, i.e. DLPs and LCOS sets display 1080p60, with the capabilities of the content.
 
#109 ·
adit said:
Samsung and Sony Blu-Ray player support 1080p at 24 fps and 60 fps, from what I remeber reading.
The source material on the disc, as defined by the Blu-ray Association, can only be 24fps. If a player is claiming anything higher, it is doing the conversion internally and outputing a processed signal.

It is the equivalent of an upscaling DVD player claiming "true" high definition output. While it may look beter than the original DVD, any resolution or frame rate gains will be interpolated approximations.

I suspect the extra processing power needed to convert the 1080p24 source to a 1080p60 signal is one of the contributors to the higher price of the initial Blu-ray players; a cost that should come down as upscaling hardware (the "Cell", perhaps) gets cheaper.
 
#110 ·
I think the dirty little secret is that for 98% of the public, HD movies in either new format will add nothing to the viewing experience. I have a Toshiba 56" 1080P DLP sitting 9' away, and upconverted DVD (a quality transfer) is vitually indistinguishable from broadcast 1080i HD .. at least to my eye which is fairly fussy. I know this because often when an HD broadcast movie is playing, I will grab the DVD from my collection, sync the movies, and flick back and forth to compare. I literally cannot see any difference, try as I might.

Maybe the PQ difference will be noticeable on monster screens, but it isn't on a 56 incher, and it FOR SURE won't be on smaller screens, and it won't be for the bulk of humanity that isn't as critical as we are (my wife cannot see, or doesn't care about, the difference on a 30" CRT between VHS and DVD, for example).

So I'm betting both formats fail, until such time as we're all watching wall-sized TVs.
 
#112 ·
I see a difference between HD and DVD viewing. Especially with objects that are in the background. Close-ups seem clear most of the time, but outside of that there is a bit of blurriness. I cannot read a sign in the distance like I can with HD. The other thing is DVDs can really vary in quality. They seem to be using different amounts of compression on different DVDs for whatever reason. They also use different aspect ratios which is what really drives me nuts. You pay for a big screen TV to get rid of the black lines, and then they start making movies with a bizarre aspect ratio so that you are left with black lines again. The only movies that seem to work properly are the ones that have an aspect ratio of 1.85:1. The movie "Jarhead" which is a recent release has a terrible aspect ratio, and the picture quality is not very good. I rented "Brokeback Mountain" the other day and couldn't believe how nice the picture was. Extremely clear and full of color too. The aspect ratio was 1.85:1 as well. It proved to me even more than ever that some movies have much better quality DVD resolution than others. I think BBM is one of the better movies for showing a high quality DVD picture.
 
#113 ·
dbennion said:
I know this because often when an HD broadcast movie is playing, I will grab the DVD from my collection, sync the movies, and flick back and forth to compare. I literally cannot see any difference, try as I might.
i think the source material matters. I have found that movies broadcast over HD channels aren't nearly as good when compared to the newer tv shows that are recorded in HD and broadcast over HD channels. i figure this is probably because the broadcaster's source material for movies (for now) is no better than dvd quality (probably broadcasting a dvd device as source).

i find myself watching horrible, horrible, horrible hdtv shows just because broadcast picture quality BLOWS AWAY anything my upscaling dvd player can do... take CSI Miami as an example. in hd it is so pretty to look at but somebody please kill the caruso character. :p
 
#114 ·
HD movie quality vs DVDs:

"Maybe the PQ difference will be noticeable on monster screens, but it isn't on a 56 incher, and it FOR SURE won't be on smaller screens,"

Sorry, dbennion, but I have to disagree. I did the comparison (again) last night with Van Helsing, which I had recorded from Movie Central HD on my Motorola 6412 PVR. My TV is the Panny 50" plasma (50PX50U). My DVD player is the Denon 3910, HDMI input to TV. I compared exact same scenes (paused, and switched the TV back and forth between PVR and DVD).

There is absolutely no question that the HD PVR picture was sharper, more detailed, and had more saturated colors. I've done the same comparisons on Lord of the Rings: ROTK, Meet the Fockers, Kill Bill, etc. and in every case the HD PVR picture is significantly better (yes, even on a 50" screen, but then my Panny plasma is no slouch).

Regarding "I'm betting both formats fail", I suspect (OK, hope) that once more and more people see how great movies are in HD, this will increase demand for movies in HD and prompt the studios to release ALL new movies in HD. I don't care which format wins; I just want my movies in HD.

--Ernie
 
#116 ·
Monk said:
The HD-DVD format supports 1080p at 24 and 30 fps. The initial HD-DVD players will output 540p*, 720p and 1080i.

The Blu-ray format support 1080p at 24 fps. Every Blu-ray player announced will output 540p*, 720p, 1080i and 1080p.

* 540p only over non-HDCP connections if the Image Constraint Token is present.
I have a DVI input on my 720p Toshiba 32HL83 and my Motorola 6200 has a DVI output. I'm wondering if I should get the DVI cable I saw at Wal-Mart for $39.95 or will the resolution be down-rezzed to 640p? If this is the case, I will stick with the component cables, although it's analogue, it transmits the full 1280 X 768 resolution to the set.(the set's native resolution)
BTW, I keep reading that if they adopt down-rezzing to non-HDCP connections the resolution will we cut in half, but as somebody pointed out in this forum or another one I belong to, it actually is reduced to one quarter! i.e. full HD 1920 X 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels vs. down-rezzed 960 X 540 =518,400 pixels!
 
#120 ·
Thanks for the info. I dropped into Radio Shack today and they wanted around $100 for a DVI cable! They are sure making a heck of a big mark-up on their stuff!
BTW Why do they ask you for your name and address when you buy anything from the Shack, even an AAA battery? I never give it to them.
 
#126 ·
MAXAM said:
Thanks for the info. I dropped into Radio Shack today and they wanted around $100 for a DVI cable! They are sure making a heck of a big mark-up on their stuff!
BTW Why do they ask you for your name and address when you buy anything from the Shack, even an AAA battery? I never give it to them.
I've been checking around for a little while now and end up ordering it from monoprice. My DVI-HDMI 3 ft cost me $11 US. I should have it by next week or two.
 
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