Not entirely in jest, since the manual isn't clear (to me, anyway) on whether the player decodes lossless directly to multi-channel PCM or converts it to lossy (DD / DTS) when decoding it to PCM.

On page 44 of the BD player OM, it indicates MC-PCM for TrueHD and DTS-MA for the PCM setting and DD or DTS for the bistream setting. Of course this would be confirmed by looking at the front display of the AVR or by looking at the "audio-info" in the user menu of the AVR since often these OM tables can be incorrect or misleading.

I agree that if the AVR is not seeing lossless audio, then there would be an excuse for a new BD player...

I also agree that it may be converting to DD or DTS before converting again to PCM - again should be detectable by the AVR.

Right, I forgot about that. Oh, well, "easy come, easy go"...maybe.

so i guess my fear is confirmed then. My blu ray doesnt work true hd and dts hd. So i guess i have to buy a new blu ray player. Man that sucks. Hey thanks alot guys for your help u guys are awesome.

Could you do one thing for us? Try the PCM option (if the disk has it and it is MC) and tell us what your receiver displays when the BR player HDMI output is set to AUTO or PCM.

Make sure you read the front display of the AVR carefully to see if it simply says PCM or something else like MC-PCM or similar or if PCM is lit as well as some other "multi light". Also, if you go into the AVR's user menu and find the audio "info" option, tell us exactly what it says.

If either of these indicate lossless PCM, then you're getting HD audio, but it's being decoded by the BD player instead of the AVR - essentially no difference.

Ok i will try thAt but i CAN tell u right away That the front on my receiver only says pcm...... Man im confused u guys.... Do i need a new blu ray???

Well, no, not if you're getting lossless multi-channel audio to the AVR. If you're hearing surround sound (without further decoding in the AVR) then you may be getting the lossless audio tracks, simply decoded in the BD player instead of in the AVR. Once you've got the audio input format "info" from the user menu, that should confirm it.

Sometimes BD players also have a "display" (or similar) button which brings up on the screen what it's sending (although it may simply show the "input" signal, not what it's outputting)

i checked the signal info and when i put pcm there is nowhere it says loseless pcm. In fact pcm doesnt even do signal 6.1 like dts-es does and the bitrate is not there compared to dts-es . I think this means i have to throw this player away. Anyone here has the same problem at me???

And the $100 question is "How does it sound"?

PCM is not a lossy format. Your BR player can deliver up to 192kHz sampling provided the source audio 192kHz PCM.

well i find its sounds louder on dts-es. Plus in the signal info screen it says 48 khz when set to pcm. In the manual it says the following .Blu ray player support dts and dts-hd( dts hd is played back as dts) and true-hd pkayed back as dolby digital. Also on page 9 it says that If dts-hd audio is played the player Is only compatible with bitstream output of current dvd material(dts)Sampling rate 48khz Max 5.1 ch.Same thing for true-hd

I think we need to be clear on one thing. The audio track you select on the disc is just as important as the setting for the HDMI output (PCM).

If the disc does not contain MC-PCM then you are out of luck. Or at least that is my interpretation.

But, on most BD players, if the decoding is done properly by the player, it would "use" the DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD tracks and produce a lossless MC-PCM signal for HDMI to the AVR. This was done when many (early HDMI) AVRs accepted MC-PCM over HDMI, but did not have decoding of the lossless audio.

gino333: I'm assuming that you waited until the movie was actually playing and not the extra material on the BD since only the movie has the lossless audio, as discussed earlier in this thread. I'm guessing that you probably did since you mentioned the DTS-ES tracks. I'm also assuming that you selected the DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD track on the disk itself (via the movie menu or via the audio button) and not one of the "lossy" audio tracks. All of these steps are important.

1. Main movie playing
2. Selecting the appropriate audio track in the audio track menu when you first start the BD.
3. Select PCM as the audio option of the BD player.
4. Check the "audio info" in the AVR user menu.
5. HDMI connection.

Note that it's possible that the DTS-ES (6.1) track may be present along with a DTS-MA 5.1 (not 6.1) track. Make sure to try a Dolby TrueHD track too to see what the "audio info" is for that track (Don't only test DTS.

There are some music (concert) BDs that do not contain a TrueHD or MA track, but do contain a MC-PCM track. If you've got a bunch of BDs you may wish to check them to see if you've got one of those, select the appropriate audio track and play it. Note that the "audio info" may not say MC-PCM - it may simply say PCM, but give you a bitrate and the number of channels - Yamaha usually indicates something like 3/2.1 or 3/3.1 for 5.1 and 6.1 sources. Tell us what you see in terms of the audio info - PCM, bitrate and number of channels.

Note that on page 44 of the OM it says you should be able to see a higher bitrate - 192, 96 for those tracks, however, you also need to make sure that the video output is not set to 480i/p since then the audio will be downsampled. (notes 12, 13). I assume you've got the video set to 1080i or p or 720P (1080i or p is usually the better setting)

hey guys. Well i got a new bluray drive. A toshiba. I will go test it to see if now it will work. So i have to set it up to bitstream right???

Thanks

Boy you don't fool around do you.

Yes bitstream will send the HD audio out to your receiver for processing via the HDMI cable.