Water heater questions.. - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 2015-02-02, 07:42 PM Thread Starter
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Water heater questions..

Long story short: soon after moving into our house 9.5 years ago, the existing water heater died. At the time we were out of cash, so went with a Reliance rental. As the rates increased (to now double what we started with) we knew we wanted to get off the rental and purchase our own, but always found something else to spend the $1000 on.

We've now decided to make it a priority. We called Reliance looking to perhaps buy out the current unit - they want $880 I figured after 8 to 9 years we'd be closer to $400. (hoping for less, but knowing it wasn't likely)

The unit is a GSW 6G40NVH-FV-02 Power vent model. The Reliance rep says that our unit is a "commercial grade" and should last 15+ years. I found a spec sheet for that model @ GSW which lists a 6 year warranty, and seems to fall under the standard household units.

Is there any truth to the "commercial grade" comment? If so, then I can see that $880 isn't terribly out of line.

Otherwise, from the limited searching I've done, I see comparable sized power vent units are $850-$1000, with 6,8,10 year warranties.

If i get a new unit I know I have to change the ABS to PVC (or whatever that new code standard is) but it's a simple, single 45 degree bend and 6' straight out the wall.

My gut says to get a new one - but don't see a lot of options, so would like some advice on brands in that case - but if the currently installed unit has the potential lifespan they're trying to tell me, I will break even on the buyout in 2 years 8 months.

Thanks!
Kevin
Guelph, Ontario
kkfaudio is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 2015-02-02, 09:04 PM
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OTTAWA
Posts: 3,252
Read your rental agreement..
Ball parking here. But a typical PV50 tank installed runs about 1500$ give or take... typically the buy out is lower by 100$ a year.

http://residential.directenergy.com/...ooklet_web.pdf

Have a look at that DE document, its shows you buy out prices. Reliance might be similar. But it helps you see what to expect

Most rental agreements last 15 years, in that time the rental company needs to make a profit.. Cost of tank,2 installers,over head yadayada ect ect... Plus be available for 365/year service....

Commercial grade? No its not.

If your replace it you may also require:
-bonding
-if copper gas line new brass flare fittings(if machined now)
-new vent and verify clearances

Licenced HVAC TECH: "Without seeing your problem i can only offer suggestions, no warranty is included with my advice"
TKG26 is online now  
post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 2015-02-02, 11:47 PM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 43░ N, 81.2░ W
Posts: 6,369
Quote:
I will break even on the buyout in 2 years 8 months.
Compare that to the remaining term of the rental agreement and go with the shorter time. By the looks of it, there are about 6 years left on the rental agreement so buying out is probably much better. The only way you lose is if the water heater needs major servicing in the next 6 years. Even so, the service cost will need to be over $800-$900 or so to end up paying more than renting. If that's the case, replacement may be the better option anyway.

Quote:
Plus be available for 365/year service....
I don't agree. If that were the case, service companies would need to charge a fee to everyone that owns water heaters in order to stay in business. It's the service that costs money, not the availability. An efficiently run service company will have enough people to provide service without any extra cost for "availability" (aka employee down time.) That's especially true of a company like Reliant which has a large, fixed number of units to service and can optimize service costs based on past statistics. If anything, their costs should be lower than a typical service company doing piece work.
ExDilbert is offline  
 
post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 2015-02-03, 12:18 AM
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OTTAWA
Posts: 3,252
Regardless the rent covers the cost of keeping the tank running... Yes there is loads of profit in there.. But it takes a large company to be able to do well..

Direct Energy had about 1.3million tanks in service. You need a work force available to service these tanks. ITs a balancing act for sure.... But the rent covers the inevitable service calls. So infact the rent covers availability to respond to service calls.

Licenced HVAC TECH: "Without seeing your problem i can only offer suggestions, no warranty is included with my advice"
TKG26 is online now  
post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 2015-02-03, 12:32 AM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 43░ N, 81.2░ W
Posts: 6,369
The rent covers the cost of the tank plus the cost of the service calls averaged over 1.3m tanks. It's not much different from buying a tank and a service contract. Many people will never need a service call but the rental agreement or service contract is like buying insurance. It spreads the cost of individual unit failure risk over the average risk of a large numbers of units.
ExDilbert is offline  
post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 2015-02-03, 12:38 AM
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OTTAWA
Posts: 3,252
yes. im not sure we are in disagreement here.

The rent covers service. LOL

Licenced HVAC TECH: "Without seeing your problem i can only offer suggestions, no warranty is included with my advice"
TKG26 is online now  
post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 2015-02-03, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 14
Thanks for the insights..

I'll need to go digging for the contract - I really hadn't thought about those details since installation, and didn't remember there would be a term, other than a cancellation charge within 1 year of install

I was kind of thinking that the lifespan would only be 10 years and anything over is a bonus, but since the contracts seem to be based on 15 year terms that changes my thinking about keeping the current unit somewhat.

Thanks again,
Kevin
kkfaudio is offline  
post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 2017-10-31, 04:02 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,122
I am looking at my options for hot water tanks. I am presently with Reliance and renting at $224.00 a year. From the model number I can tell that it is a 40 gallon tank and from the serial I can tell that it is from April 2002. So it is over 15 years old. I know Reliance will probably be increasing their rates in January 2018. I have talked to my furnace guy who services my furnace every year and he tell me that he can supply and install a water tank for about $1250.00 taxes included.

I hear that Reliance charges a buyout fee. Has anybody had any dealing with them? I hear that Reliance also charges to take back the old tank. My Furnace guy tell me that he can take the old tank back.
cyclist44 is offline  
post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 2017-11-01, 12:40 AM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regional Municipality of Durham
Posts: 3,974
let me know how your dealings with reliance go. I am also with them and assumed the rental when I bought my house, even though I did not want to rent, oh well, Canada kicks ass

Bell Satellite TV, 9400 HD PVR, 65 Inch LED TV, Smart Blue Ray Player, No sound system.
Paolo is online now  
post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 2017-11-01, 11:35 AM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 43░ N, 81.2░ W
Posts: 6,369
Last I heard, Reliance does not charge a fee if the water heater is returned by a professional installer. They may not even want it back but do require proof that it was replaced. The installer may be a good source of their current policies since he has probably done it previously.

For future reference, water heater contracts can usually be bought out for under $200 once they get close to about 15 years old. The economics of doing so depends on how long it lasts. We bought ours out at about 14 years and it lasted over a year so it worked out. Since it was then owned outright, replacing it was not an issue.

Rates for the same type of water heater should not be much different. However, Reliance may charge a fee for installation if any plumbing changes are required. Rental fees would increase significantly if a more efficient (more expensive) water heater is installed.
ExDilbert is offline  
post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 2017-11-01, 12:04 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 334
I hate Reliance. When I bought my house I ended up with the rental contract. I had a copy of the contract which was for 15 years. I foolishly assumed after 15 years I wouldn't pay anymore. No they said I had to continue to pay because it was still theirs. The buyout was something like $800. After 15 years!!!

They said I could lower my payment but that if something happened they wouldn't fix it even though they own it.

I was ticked off so I bought a new one and told them to come and get the old one.

I think I had to pay for that.

When the guy came he just threw it in the truck. I asked him what they would do with it and he said "Throw it out"

I thought it was worth $800? I will never deal with them again.

Samsung 55D6300 | Samsung Blu-Ray Player | Bell Fibe TV | X Box One and 360 | Too many DVD's
Coasterdon is offline  
post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 2017-11-01, 01:46 PM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: 43░ N, 81.2░ W
Posts: 6,369
I feel the same way. Reliance a totally despicable company in terms of prices and policies. $800 is totally out of line for an end of life heater. The $200 we paid was only about 2-3 years ago.

We once had electric water heater rentals through the local utility here. The low prices Ontario utilities charged probably explains the unusual popularity of renting here. They also installed energy saving timers to lower their costs and passed the savings on as lower rental fees. Then the province "deregulated" hydro and forced utilities to divest their water heater rental operations. Reliance took over much of it here and basic rental prices tripled overnight. I couldn't do much about it since I was renting at the time and the lease agreement said I had to pay the water heater rental. Reliance does not replace energy saving timers so electricity costs go way up with TOU pricing. Since it's a rental, the legality of installing energy saving devices is cloudy.
ExDilbert is offline  
post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 2017-11-01, 02:51 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,122
I don't remember seeing or signing any contract. Our present home was purchased in 2005 and tank was already installed so we just continued renting. My house insurance company has told me that they will not insure a home that has a hot water tank that is more than 15 years old. We have always rented from reliance and its previous company I think it was Union.
cyclist44 is offline  
post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 2017-11-03, 02:58 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,122
Talked to Reliance and according to them there is no fee to get out of rental of tank. Tank is over 15 years old. As long as I drain and return the tank myself there is no fee. If Reliance has to pick it up the tank fee start at $75.00 to pick up tank if they don't have to bring it up stairs. If Reliance has to drain tank and bring it up the stair etc. the fee would be if I can remember correctly $125.00.

To buy out the Tank would be $40.00. The buy out goes down 7% per year but it will never go to zero. The lowest fee would be $40.00. If you buy out the tank you would be responsible for all repairs on an old tank that may last you for maybe a couple more years.

Reliance also told me their tanks are industrial tanks and last longer than the retail tanks from Home Depot and Lowes etc.

I don't know if this is true but Reliance told me that depending on how the tank is vented a different tank would be used. The tank that is vented through the chimney would be different then the tank that is vented through a outside wall.

So right now I have a mid efficiency furnace and tank that are vented through a chimney. My next furnace would probably be a high efficiency. I don't think you can buy a mid efficiency furnace anymore.
cyclist44 is offline  
post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 2017-11-03, 03:11 PM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 5,297
You can't buy a mid efficient furnace from Reliance but there are people who buy them from the US that sells them, as places like condos and apartments can't get high efficient.
DSgamby is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome