Ontario electricity rates going up (and down, and up, and up) - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #1 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-15, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Ontario electricity rates going up (and down, and up, and up)

From cbc.ca
Electricity rates to skyrocket in Ontario

Quote:
Domestic electricity costs in Ontario will rise by an average of eight per cent.

The Ontario Energy Board approved the increase on Thursday for homes that don't have the so-called "smart meters."

Homes that do have the meters — which record time-of-day usage — will be hit with more modest increases of 5.8 per cent.

The distribution rate increase takes effect on May 1.
....
At Queen's Park on Thursday, the Progressive Conservatives said consumers are looking at a $300-a-year hike to their hydro bills because of all the fees and taxes included in the government's energy plans.

Tory energy critic John Yakabuski said fees such as $4 per year conservation cost, the average monthly electricity bill increase and the 13 per cent HST will add hundreds of dollars to people's bills.

The figure could even double to more than $600 when all of the government's green energy subsidies are finally rolled out, he said.
I can't figure their math out. $300/year = $25/month. That would put the average residential bill at currently ~ $500/month, which I find shocking (puns intended ).

On the lighter side:
Today's scientific question is: What in the world is electricity? And where does it go after it leaves the toaster?
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post #2 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-15, 04:39 PM
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The $300 comes from all the increases, 1/3 of which is attributable to the HST. The actual electricity cost is only about 1/2 of the typical bill - there are lots of other items which contribute to your bill which increase it to roughly twice what you pay for the electricity itself.

See the following about understanding your bill:

http://www.torontohydro.com/sites/el...gYourBill.aspx

There have been lots of articles about this recently with the HST and the "green energy subsidies" starting to come into play - Hydro will pay more for wind and solar - on top of the other usual price increases, but at this point this (green energy) has a very minor impact, since not much electricity comes from those sources yet.

The "average user" is currently at roughly $100/month.

For example: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ws)&utm_source

Please don't turn this into an HST thread.

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post #3 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-15, 04:45 PM
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from the article

Quote:
More increases are on the way as well when the province's harmonized sales tax takes effect on July 1.
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post #4 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-15, 09:49 PM
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Hydro rates for the average user are going to sky rocket in the coming months and years. Increased fees, HST, overpaying for "green" generators and smart meters will have a major impact on users wallets.

This is only the beginning.

I wouldn't mind so much if my salary could keep pace with all these charges...

Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely stupid.
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post #5 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 02:52 PM
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From the Digital Home article:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/2010/04/el...-and-july-1st/

Quote:
Time of Use customers are also expected to take a major hit with increases in both off peak and on peak electricity prices being increased. Off-peak pricing will rise a whopping 20.5% to 5.3 cents per kWh (from 4.4 cents) while on-peak pricing will increase 6.5% to at 9.9 cents per kWh (from 9.3 cents).
and http://www.oeb.gov.on.ca/OEB/Consume...tricity+Prices

I don't get it. I'm on TOU rates and I'm doing what I'm supposed to - I've shifted almost 80% of my energy use to off peak and my electrical rate for that use is going up 20%!!! The off-peak price has doubled since May 2008!

Hit the people who are using on-peak power, not the people who are doing what's right. There's no increase for mid-peak rates. This is not logical (sorry Spock)!

FYI. Here's a bit of pricing history - tables & graphs.

http://www.oeb.gov.on.ca/OEB/Consume...tricity+Prices

Here's a sample of my mid-November to mid-April usage:



I do have an electric water heater, which I have on a timer, so I can shift more than most people (percentage-wise), however, we're also retired with both of us home most days, so we can't do much with the thermostat.

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post #6 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 03:44 PM
 
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Angry

57....couldnt agree with you more....follow everything to off-peak hours...every light bulb has been changed to energy eff bulbs...timers on everything...programmable thermostat...blah blah blah....and YES we get hit....Its the same with the Water in Niagara...do everything they request hit us with a 7.6% increase...why..."cause we're losing Money"...WTF??? same with the Hydro do what they tell us...WTF?? God help us....i can honestly see and HOPE a huge TAX Revolt against the Governing bodies of this country hitting the them upside the head.....Hey...prices go up....my wages don't go up to match everything we get slapped with..........ARGGGGGHHHHHHH
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post #7 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 03:52 PM
 
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Angry

What a Joke, but who is laughing. The majority of power use is not from residential customers at all and we get hit with this BS while the real large wasters are still on bulk rate.
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post #8 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
I don't get it. I'm on TOU rates and I'm doing what I'm supposed to - I've shifted almost 80% of my energy use to off peak and my electrical rate for that use is going up 20%!
The increase in off-peak hours was a real shock to me. Unfortunately 57 you are going to get nailed percentage wise in terms of price increases.

I wonder how people think about Dalton's ideas of subsidizing electric cars now? The selling point was you charged them in off-peak times but the off-peak price now with all the extra surcharges and taxes will likely be over 10 cents a kWh.
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post #9 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 04:34 PM
 
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LOOK at your electricity bill, ONLY about 35% of it is actually related to how much electricity you consume. The rest is customer, delivery, stranded debt charges, pst/gst etc.

As for the time of use thing, even shifting some use for things you can (not Fridges, furnaces etc -since they run periodically througout the day ), you'll soon figure out as I did that any potential savings amount to a very small fraction of your bill. Maybe a 5% difference overall.

Certainly NOT worth doing the dishwasher or laundry at 3 am. IMO.
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post #10 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
with all the extra surcharges and taxes will likely be over 10 cents a kWh.
Using the numbers from my "understanding your bill" link in post 2, after July 1, off-peak rates (everything in) will be close to 13¢/kWh based on the average 800 kWh/month. Some of the charges below may even go up at that time, since the numbers are current numbers from the Toronto Hydro site. (On-peak will be about 18¢/kWh, mid-peak 16¢/kWh)

Quote:
* TOU off-peak 5.3 ¢/kWh (Edit 5.1 in Winter 2011 - 5.9 in May 2011
* Transmission Charge1: 1.05¢/kWh
* Customer Charge: $17.50/30 days (2.2¢/kWh @ 800 kWh/mo)

* Distribution Charge: 1.432¢/kWh which includes:
- Regulatory Asset Recovery Charge: - 0.041¢/kWh
- Lost Revenue Adjustment Charge: - 0.018¢/kWh
- Shared Savings Charge: - 0.021¢/kWh

* Wholesale Market Operations1: 0.65¢/kWh
* Standard Supply Service - Admin Charge2 (if applicable): 0.25¢ (almost inconsequential)
* Debt Retirement Charges 0.7¢/kWh
* 13% HST (multiply by 1.13 after adding all the above in)
Edit - incremental rates are roughly 2 ¢/kWh lower due to the customer charge being fixed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher
Certainly NOT worth doing the dishwasher or laundry at 3 am. IMO.
It's after 9PM and all weekend - Edit - May 2011 it'll be 7PM. My savings were roughly $50 on my last bill (2 months). Up to you if that's "worth it", but this thread is not about smart meters, rather about the amount of the charges.

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post #11 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 04:53 PM
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I'm not sure where you got 35% from but that is inaccurate

Here from the OEB is what you would pay for 1,000 kWh from Toronto Hydro
  • Electricity - $60.52
  • Delivery - $41.91
  • Regulatory - $6.99
  • DRC - $7.00
  • GST - $5.82
Total - $122.25

So 50% is probably more accurate.

As far as TOU, here are three examples
  • TOU (58% off, 20% mid, 22% on) - $135.84 (the oeb default and probably similar to the typical users)
  • TOU (65% off, 15% mid, 20% on) - $123.20
  • TOU (40% off, 20% mid, 40% on - $135.84

If you use the 60/20/20 pct then TOU electricity costs are going up about 14%

So 57, the reason that off-peak is going up 20% is so TOU users continue to pay significantly more than RPP customers, even those that shift consumption considerably.
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post #12 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 04:54 PM
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If you wish to compare

here is the calculator from OEB
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post #13 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
So 57, the reason that off-peak is going up 20% is so TOU users continue to pay significantly more than RPP customers, even those that shift consumption considerably.
Yeah, but they could hit the on-peak and mid-peak users harder... I actually saved about $20 on my last bill vs RPP and about $50 vs TOU relative to what I would have been charged had I not changed my "habits".

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post #14 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 05:22 PM
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I'm not disagreeing with you but my take is this.

TOU was more about rationalizing higher costs to consumers than saving the environment. The Government pays lip service to the environment but the reality is that getting rid of coal fired plants would be far smarter than TOU.

When people like you and I started to use more off-peak hours, revenues fell so now you have to jack rates up in those off peak times to recover losses.
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post #15 of 96 (permalink) Old 2010-04-16, 05:36 PM
 
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and again i ask "Why should we pay the penalty for doing what they asked.... to conserve!!!!" Thats the part that really burns my A$@......doing my part.....BUT...still get screwed in the end....The Madness has to stop
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