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Telus vs Shaw for Gaming and TV

25K views 27 replies 17 participants last post by  Wheelman 
#1 ·
I am considering a switch from Shaw to Telus for broadband and TV. Not happy with:
-Shaw's PQ
-audio dropouts (not as bad as they used to be)
-overall TV experience - slow channel changes, no whole home PVR, clunky guide, frequent reboots etc.

I've seen a demo of Telus TV's new platform and it looked good and seems to address my problems with Shaw. Also, it seems as though IPTV providers are pushing the innovation envelope faster than the established cable guys. My guess is Telus will do things like remote PVR programming and Xbox integration long before Shaw.

The topic of broadband speeds seems to be fairly well covered but what about gaming performance? Does "ping" speed matter the most here? Basically I don't want to sign up for 2 years of Telus TV only to discover that while I get 10Mbps or maybe 3Mbps with 2 TVs on, my gaming performance is much worse than Shaw's.

How is Telus's gaming performance?
Does sharing the pipe with Telus TV degrade this performance.
 
#2 ·
if you only play on a particular server then you should be very concerned about ping. otherwise you can usually find a decent server. the only way i can think to find out what your ping might be would be to ask a neighbour that already has telus. but yeah, i sure wouldn't sign a contract only to find out your ping is over 100.
 
#3 ·
Telus is another poor DSL provider (surprised? Its DSL..), when I had them all my pings doubled if not tripled, I had to wait WEEKS to get the modem in the mail, speeds were a joke, and the random disconnects were lovely. As for their TV, its useable but because they were so damn pathetic in faking like they're trying to be helpful we left them completely and took Shaw.

With Telus I had latency in the high 20's through their gateway and backbones, which is complete garbage and I was <120m from the DSLAM. They acted like there was no problem. With Shaw latency through the gateway and backbone was constantly below 10ms, speeds were EXACTLY whats advertised and service dropouts were once every 3 months for an hour or two at most, and they even phoned us in advance about it! Not to mention DSL latency tends to spike (EG: 25ms, 25ms, 194ms, 500ms, 52ms, etc) which ruins online gaming and many other things, latency needs to be stable. A stable 80ms to a game server is better than a unstable 55ms to the same server. The fluctuation in latency is called jitter.

Minimum throughput needed to play online games:

Down: 384 Kbps
Up: 256 Kbps


Minimum throughput needed to download those games, watch videos comfortably, etc:

Down: 2 Mbps
Up: 256 Kbps


Minimum throughput needed to download games, watch HD videos at excellent speeds:

Down: 5 Mbps
Up: 512 Kbps


Minimum throughput needed for the heavy gamer thats constantly downloading, watching HD videos, streaming music and using VOIP at once:

Down: 7 Mbps
Up: 1 Mbps


Of coarse those are "general averages" and can vary if you torrent and seed alot, run a VPN server, or use VOIP while gaming such as Ventrilo, which the codec uses varies by server and can put strain on throughput (especially upstream) for some people, and these are MINIMUMS not RECOMMENDED. These values assume this is what you ACTUALLY GET and not what your ISP "says you will get" (unless its Shaw! :))

Save yourself $ and trouble, stay with Shaw. At least for internet. They are very polite as well to fix even the slightest concern you have, oh and they have internet "know how".
 
#17 ·
I have this exact same problem with Telus. By using pingplotter (pingplotter.com) I was able to isolate to a local telus node. The jitter is all over the place, and telus claims that 9ms ping is excellent(yes a stable 9ms is excellent, but it spikes over 200ms at times and I mean in seconds). I have tried to explain to them about ping stability but they don't get it. Now I have to threaten to leave them which is totally ridiculous!
 
#6 ·
It has always been my experience that cable is faster, than DSL. I believe that theory has been proven as well as for tv i have heard it slows down internet considerably. I feel that while there may some problems with quality, there may be some over at telus too as they all seem to have issues, so i plan on sticking with shaw, its seems like its technology that has been proven and they seem to be willing to help if theres a problem. Telus ? Not so sure.
 
#7 ·
Excluding Warp and Nitro which most people don't have, that's a little like saying cars are faster than trucks. What you state is often the case, however it can vary depending on your area of town. Having said that, my opinion is the same as yours, which is that Shaw typically has a better product to offer.

I have spoken to a few Telus employees who state that they will soon offer VDSL. However, they are quite a bit behind Shaw in the speed competition.

m.
 
#11 ·
Maybe, but it's not too much of a stretch for a cable provider to offer 10 Mbps down, especially with upstream channel bonding on DOCSIS 3.0 modems. Comcast offers 50/10 service, and last time I checked, they weren't using more than 2 bonded upstream channels (5 Mbps up/channel) . Their 22/5 service doesn't use any upstream bonding.

There's no reason that Shaw (or other cable providers) can't offer faster upload speeds, especially on their higher tiers (25/2 or 100/5 could be 25/10 or 100/20 using all 4 upstream channels@ 5 Mbps/channel).
 
#12 ·
I'm going tobe making the jump tomorrow to TELUS' newplatform for their IPTV and Internet service.. im NOT signing a contract and going to try it out for a month.. if my gaming experience slows down (Call of Duty & StarTrekOnline) im calling in to canel..

HOWEVER

should it proove to be good with 1 HD TV on and 1 other TV on AND gaming.. I shall call and cancel Shaw and sign a contract with TELUS.

thus getting a freePVR anywhere instead of paying 15$ a month..

definietly worth a try and no need to sign a contract right then and there neither.
 
#13 ·
good choice, if your in a fairly decent neighborhood you should have a good experience with telus. I've dumped shaw a while ago because of picture quality on their hd service and my internet kept being throttle. I had it and jumped on telus with 6.0 service, it did the job as expect 650KB\s even with torrents. Now im using their 15.0 service hitting speed of 1.2MB\s which is awsome when it comes to downloading bluray rips.. My lattency just to local edm servers is 10ms, of course the further i go the longer it takes, but i never got 10ms with shaw, was always more like 50~60ms and thats in edmonton, and got worse as i tested further away.

remember most urban areas that telus cover have been upgraded with FTTN and then converted back on twistted pair usally no futher than 1500m. As long as theres a port, you should get a good speed, with the new TTV platform you can chose 15mbps or 25mbps internet. those speeds are only valid when tv's are off. your looking at about 3~4mbps per HD stream. there for at 15mbps internet, with the tv on, youll get 11mbps.
 
#15 ·
Cloudstrife46, your link didn't work for me :(

is this the one you were linking to ?

I covet my nieghbours broadband

:confused:

anyways on to what I had to say I just downgraded from extreme to normal high speed with Shaw. It took Shaw 3 years to downgrade my service. and 1 complaint per year.. I spent 3 years of paying for extreme speeds.. and now that i am on normal internet i see no difference whatsoever.. thieving buggers if you ask me, Shaw is over charging for a bull crap service.

Sadly there are no real options for broadband choices in Vancouver unless you are lucky enough to live in a fiber optic served building by Novus... but is Novus any better. So at present no choice but to bear with the atrocious service of Shaw or Telus. sighs not much of a choice..

I do not own a LCD or Plasma television, hence no real need for high Def TV signals or internet as of yet.. But everything is switching to Digital by the end of this year and I have been told I wont get a signal unless I get one of digital boxes or upgrade to a High Def LCD or Plasma TV i dont know if thats true or not...

I do know the Digital set Box starts at a cost of 150 dollars for the basic None PVR one.. grrrr... so not fair. My CRT television is good enough for me.. the LCD monitor on the PC is sufficient for my gaming needs. Why should I upgrade my TV to a digital one when My CRT works great.

Why should I be forced to buy a digital box just so I can watch TV Shaw continue to serve Digital content to my CRT with out that digital box and why should I have to pay 150 dollars extra for it ?

I for one would love a free month of Telus DSL service to see what it is like and if it is better for gaming than Shaw is. I would jump ship no problem... but I wont pay for a trial period, I want at least one month of a free trial So i can compare it fully and competently, I am not going to sign a contract for something that may be inferior to what I currently use now... Then again it might be superior, cause as of late I am incredibly disappointed with the service being provided by Shaw.

the worst part is ever since Shaw upgraded my neighborhood in Sept last year and switched over from the 24 ip address to the 96 ip address, my gaming sites and server connections have gone to hell, the jitter is horrible and the ping has gone from 40 or 50 to 100 or 200 and on some servers 300 to 500... not much fun when one ends up randomly disconnected or lag out and get blown away.

just so you now this happened before i downgraded my internet service, to be brutally honest, it has been horrible internet service with Shaw ever since I moved 3 blocks from the old Condo to this new high rise.

But I heard that a building a few blocks away has a apartment coming open and they are on Novus.. Contemplating the move for the novus alone it might be worth the higher rent in a newer building too closer to the down town core also...

Is any one here on novus or experienced with there services?

and so ends my rant complaint and questions.. :Talking: :cool:
 
#16 · (Edited)
Orik you do not have to upgrade your CRT and Shaw does offer a cheaper $90 digital box option. You can look for a DVR with a hard drive or continue with a VHS machine if you want. But if you must buy a PVR and a digital box, I'd look at biting the bullet and buying a new PVR/digital box just for the convenience.

Edit: And my bad, I just noticed this is in the Shaw Internet and Phone thread. Sorry mods.
 
#18 ·
All networks are likely to have points of congestion at one time or another. It's fantastic that you're actually measuring it though. That way you can switch providers and have a quantitative data that shows whether you're getting better (or worse) service with your new ISP.
 
#19 ·
I use VOIP on Telus Internet 25 and no body complained about my phone voice quality.
My son plays internet games with his friends. He did not complain about the lag.

In western Canada, Telus and Shaw are the major ISPs. Correct me if I am wrong. For the resellers, you are getting the same kind of service from Telus and Shaw. Therefore, if one is not happy with Shaw and Telus service, I don't know who else to go.
 
#20 ·
I'm moving from Toronto to Edmonton this fall. As a heavy online gamer (PC & PS4) I want low consistent pings. I dont mind paying for it. I have no history with Shaw or Telus, so dont know "who is better". I have been reading the comments in this forum, some are pretty old so may not be valid, and quite legitimate complaints may be isolated examples. I have not seen enough recent really bad complaints to assume there is a pattern. Is that fair? Or is there broad consensus that one of these guys sucks more than the other.

From my online reading there are two parts to the network story for a good gaming ISP. The connection from your home to the ISP network, and the distance and number of interconnection points between the ISP network and where the game is actually hosted (normally somewhere in the USA). THe cable vs xDSL debate only covers from the ISP network to the home. I think, but could be wrong as this is now stretching my knowledge, that it depends what generation of DSL technology you are on vs. how many people are sharing the cable connection. Neither of which will an ISP tell you.

Here in Toronto I am on Rogers now and I have had Bell in the past. There was not a world of difference between them, except I think Bell was more consistent on ping and on the upstream. Rogers really sucks for that. I cant use Shareplay at any time, and in the evening during peak hours broadcasting to twitch only works well on low resolution. Which is pretty pathetic cosnidering how much I am paying for internet.

Does anyone know or researched the difference between Shaw and Telus on connections to the big game publishers? If you are playing a multiplayer game as a team, do you consistently get in early or late to the team? Or tried broadcasting to twitch? Whats that like?

And there was the announcement of telus rolling out fiber. That would be very cool. Having no latency on the ISP to my house would provide some head room on the connection between the ISP and the game location. Anyone know someone who has it who is a gamer? I'd probably pick a condo specifically because it has fibre.

tx
David
 
#21 ·
I don't play internet games. But I am happy with Telus Internet 25 service with 25Mbps download/5Mbps upload. I consistently getting 7ms ping, 27mbps download and 6.5Mbps upload day or night. I am on copper - not fibre.

But I cannot say the same for Shaw cable internet during the peak hours. The ping was around 20s if I remember it correctly as I switched to Telus over a year ago.
 
#22 ·
I have Telus fiber, and it's pretty good. I don't think there would be that much of a noticeable latency difference between Telus and Shaw when Shaw is working well, but in my case Shaw wasn't working well at all and Telus has been fantastic.

Of course, Telus has a fiber line to my house and Shaw doesn't, so I don't think I'll be switching back anytime soon.
 
#23 ·
"Of course, Telus has a fiber line to my house and Shaw doesn't, so I don't think I'll be switching back anytime soon"

That pretty much would clinch it for me. If I could get fibre right to my home I would be done. I'm going to have to start researching which condos have it.

Now if they could only come out with WiFi that wasnt jittery as hell. But I have heard the new Homeplug AV2 and G.Hn powerline adapters are really good, as long as they are plugged into the same circuit in your fuse box (Canadian homes have 2 120V circuits that get combined to make 240, individual outlets are wired to either one side or the other). I could figure out how to do that in a home, but I have no idea how they do it in a condo.
 
#28 ·
Good to know. I remember having problem with a certain game that had really poor netcode. I often wondered if the ping from Shaw was bad despite the connection itself being rock solid, noticing others not having similar problems like I was.
 
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