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Bell Fibe vs. Rogers Cable as ISP - your opinion

99K views 37 replies 17 participants last post by  JamesK 
#1 ·
Hello,

I used to be a Bell DSL customer 3 years ago, but the service was unreliable due to my home telephone copper lines. Moved to Rogers and in the past few months, service is horrible in the evenings, to the point that I don't have internet access at all. I heard this is common with Rogers in downtown Toronto.

Is there anyone who has moved from Rogers cable internet to Bell Fibe with similar problems as mine? Cost is not an issue for me as long as I have reliable internet service. Anyone who has also moved to Bell Five TV from Rogers? How is it.

Any comments - good or bad - are greatly appreciated.

Ramiro
 
#2 ·
I use Rogers at home and have had some involvement with them at work. I have never used any ADSL at home, but often had to deal with Bell in my work. I'd much rather have Rogers. My cable Internet access tends to work well, with very few problems. This compares with Bell ADSL at work failing frequently. Then we get to the support, where Rogers is much better than Bell.
 
#3 ·
ramiror, when you get Fibe internet, your line will be changed from ADSL to VDSL2+ and rerouted to a local fibre-optic node within a km of your home, which will reduce the length of the copper line and eliminate the reliability problems you were having.

If you get Fibe TV, the physical line speed will typically be 35 Mbps to handle TV and you can choose either 15 or 25 Mbps download (upload is 10 with both). You may also be able to get 50/10 depending on your location. Bell has brought back unlimited bandwidth for $10/month if you have TV, internet and phone (either landline or cell).

If you search the Bell Fibe TV forum for "Rogers", you will see lots of people that have switched to Bell and are happy with their decision.
 
#5 ·
Ramiror: Use what we say with a grain of salt. Just ask any of the first people over in the HD PVR thread what they think of Rogers support when they released their updated firmware. I have never had an issue with Rogers internet, period, but I also have one of their highest speed tiers. That being said, I am seriously considering switching to Bell for TV and Internet, if the 50/10 speed is available at my location. I have had enough with Rogers for their cable mess. Everyone has different experiences. My main reasons for disliking Rogers are purely because they are last to the show when it comes to internet and tv offerings.
 
#6 ·
I had been with Rogers for a number of years but moved over to Fibe when it became available in our neighbourhood a couple of years ago. First of all, the TV experience is a significant improvement over Rogers. The first thing we noticed was that the resolution seemed a fair bit better. We've got top end Panasonic VT series plasmas and we noticed the difference immediately. Second, the whole Guide/Menu/VOD is also significantly better than what Rogers had (at the time - I'm not sure where they stand now). Fibe allows you to customize your guide so you only see the channels in the guide that you want (whether you subscribe to them or not). Third, check what Fibe internet speed is available in your area. A lot of areas are 50/10. Ours is not so I'm getting 25/7. This is one area that I feel that Rogers has the edge. Bell home telephone is fine but we thought the Rogers digital phone sounded clearer.

In any event we've generally been happy with our switch to Fibe. The most significant improvement is the TV experience of Fibe vs Rogers.

Otherwise both offerings are a good with Rogers having an edge in internet speed and phone clarity. I hope this helps.
 
#7 ·
Be very careful about Bell's promise to deliver top internet speed with Fibe. I live in the west-end of Toronto and the best speed Bell could deliver was 6 mbps even though every CSR assured me my area was designated for the max available. After almost two years and numerous technicians later, every tech said the same thing i.e. that the switch box on my street was completely inadequate to deliver more and until Bell completely changed the infrastructure nothing would improve.

I switched to Techsavvy cable and the speed improved to the 20 mbps plan purchased. I still have Bell TV but without Fibe of course.
 
#8 ·
That's very interesting. Our 25/7 Fibe Internet actually achieves those speeds (although it drops to 16/7 if the TV's are on). However, like WFG, Bell had to change our "Card" at the box in our neighbourhood to make sure we could achieve this. It sure seems like the Bell fibre optic network rollout is a work in progress.
 
#10 ·
I switched from Rogers to Bell and....

I switched about 2 years ago. I live in Ottawa. I had Rogers 8Mb service when I switched, which worked fairly well. The cable modem would periodically reset itself which was annoying because my home wifi name would go back to the default name, and settings would need to be reset. I did it the first 3 times it reset itself (over the course of a year), and then the next time it happened, just went with default.

When I switched to Bell, I went 25/10 Fibe. I switched because the package with Bell was only 4 dollars more for 25 Mbit speeds, plus I already had 2 Bell phone lines into the house so I would get a bundled discount (a measly 4 bucks). I have tested the speed multiple times, it is what is advertised. The connection does drop more than the Rogers connection ever did, but not very often. I would say I get a hiccup once every 2 weeks or so, and the modem always resets itself after no more than a 5-minute outage. It does keep all customizations though, so it is a minor annoyance. I don't have TV service, just a good old antenna on the roof so the outages don't affect my TV habits in the least.

Am now looking around again. Bell arbitrarily increased the cost of my Fiber by $3 a month, and also the cost of my dual-phone line package by $2.50. 5.50 a month is not enough to break the bank, but is annoying enough that it warrants pricing out the competition.

DD.
 
#11 ·
I use Rogers Express at a nonprofit where I help out, and, recently I switched from Teksavvy 5 MBps DSL to Bell Fibe when I got Fibe TV at home. I'm on the 15/10 Fibe internet. On Rogers Express, downloads are about 800-900 kB/sec. On my old DSL they were around 550. On Fibe they're about 1.8 MB/sec, about 3 times regular DSL. I don't have upload figures on Rogers, but on my old DSL upload was about 50 kB/sec and on Fibe it's over 10 times as fast. This is the biggest gain I've seen.
 
#12 ·
I've been on Rogers in the Toronto area for about a year - the mid-tier plan.

In the evening the connection is so slow we can't watch low-res video.

Recently, we've taken to tethering the computers to my wife's 3G (not LTE) Android phone in the evening. Then the same sites work perfectly.

It's sad that 3G cellular is so much better then broadband cable, and it's not a good solution - she has the 6GB plan but we are still scared about going over since the overage charge is so big.

It's also sad because I've tended to think that Robellus have poor C/S, very high prices, and some pretty nasty practices, but at least they have good technology...
 
#13 ·
It's sad that 3G cellular is so much better then broadband cable,
This discussion is very odd. In previous Rogers threads, and in my experience, Rogers provides their customers with exactly the upload and download speeds they pay for (excepting perhaps the fastest service) because that may occasionally have a bottleneck at peak times.

With Speed Boost, the downloads for the first few seconds even exceeds the paid for rate. If you're not getting the speed you pay for from Rogers, then there is something wrong at your location, or you're not connected directly to the modem with a cable. Or perhaps the modem is not properly provisioned, which simply requires a call to Rogers.

Almost all complaints on this forum regarding broadband speed have been due to wireless connections and router issues. Not the speed at the modem from Rogers. People on Lite, Express, Extreme or Extreme Plus almost always get what they pay for because the system has to be able to handle the "Ultimate" package which is many times faster.
 
#14 ·
wfg ::::theres no possible way you could be only getting 6mb thru bell and by switching to techsavvy your getting 20 mb techsavvy gets there internet thru bell techsavvy is Bells 3rd party company where techsavvy uses the Bell line to provide you with the internet hence the term DRYLOOP;)
 
#15 ·
Edcanuck when you had the tech run a speedtest what site did he use to run a speedtest and was he connected wi-fi or directly to the mdm? that tech who showed up to do your install was probably not an experienced tech, there could be alot of issues when it comes to speedtest as i am a tech and when customers ask to do a speedtest i use my meter and my meter is 100% accurate because it's also testing the integrity of the line if there are issues with the line the result of the speedtest will be affected,

as far as fiber going to the house Bell has stopped running copper in new subdivisions and is all fiber optic eventuall with Bells new 7330 system its only a matter of time well be able to provide you with a mirrored speed 50mb/50mb download/upload the highest speed we can offer if fiber optic is in the new subdivision are all mirrored starting at 25mb to 50mb all the way to 125mb even thought the fiber can have a max attainable of 1.2g im not sure if Bell will ever offer a 1g download speed but if offered expect to pay a huge amount as that is just insane speed
 
#16 ·
Yeah, I am going to have to agree with 57 on this one. First, 3G data is slow. Just ping times to the closest tower start in the 250MS range, and I have seen some hit well over 2000MS. Then factor in the 3G tops out around 4Mbps. Once inside a building, or anywhere where signal is not 100%, that starts dropping like a brick in water.

I have been using cable internet since the @home days with Shaw in Scarborough. Then Rogers bought Shaw's turf. I have almost always had the fastest speeds available. I have heard of slow downs with Rogers in recent years on nodes, during peak times, but, that was easily beat by switching from the old Docsis 2 modems, to the newer Docsis 3 modems. I cannot think of any time I didn't get the speed I pay for.

Soon, this will change, and it won't be Rogers fault. As speeds are increasing, people who are downloading large files will soon find they are not getting the speeds that are advertised, it will be because of bottlenecks in the home network, and slow hard drives. People with older hard drives, and even some more newer ones, will soon not be able to write data to their hard drive as fast as its being delivered to them. For example, once you start hitting 400Mbps for internet, you are reaching the threshold for older internal HDD's, mind you, I have seen some older HDD's that average write speeds dropped down to about 25MB/S. You also have USB 2.0 External HDD's, which average in and around the 20-35MB/s range for sustained writing, not burst writing, which, Rogers already offers internet packages that beat the 20MB/s range.

With two of Rogers packages, I have had to upgrade some of my friends home networks to T1000, as their old T10/100 networks were saturated, and couldn't handle the speed coming in. Remember, if the network is T10/100, its best to assume it will max out at around 80% of what its rated for. So, 80Mbps, give or take. One recent person had upgraded all the proper Rogers equipment, but, at his computer still wasn't getting even close to the 150Mpbs speed. Everything looked fine, I open up his computer, take a good look at his NIC (Network Interface Card), and sure enough, it was only rated for 10/100. Bought a new $10 card, and he was good to go.

This is the problem when rating ISPs. Sometimes, the people who complain, have the least knowledge of their network, the PC, all attached gear, and what all of it can actually do. Home networks are very easily screwed up, sometimes gear doesn't play nice with each other, and even software like AV can slow things down on the computer end. Cheap routers that have 5-10 wireless devices attached to them can slow down, because while they say they can handle it, they really can't. As I recently said, don't expect a cheap $50.00 router to give enterprise grade performance.
 
#17 ·
@viper359
Sure, 3G is slow, but it is easily enough to do the sort of standard-def video that I"m talking about. And latency is not a factor for watching a video. Either way, I can tell you for certain that once we disconnect the wifi and start tethering the video is perfectly smooth.

@57
I hear you, and I can't claim to have setup formal testing procedures here, but I'm still pretty sure of the results. Our Wifi is rock solid, no other AP's on the channel, no microwave on or other obvious source of interference.

We can stream Netflix no problem over the Rogers connection, but that is after 11pm. The problems occur during peak time.

When we switch from cable source to cellular source we keep using the same video source (dailyshow, 60minutes, youtube) and it starts working without long periods of buffering.

How are you determining that Rogers always provides what they say? If you are using speedtest - I don't trust them because they only test burst speed and they even give a little variable length delay before the test (it appears that that delay is not a random factor meant to improve the test, but just waiting for the connection to be ready).

Maybe Rogers really does give the speed we are sold - in our loop - but the bottleneck that affected me is higher up without the Rogers Cable infrastructure? After all, I'm talking about peak time and it seems quite possible that there are points in their infrastructure that don't have the capacity to handle peak.
 
#18 ·
How are you determining that Rogers always provides what they say?
I go to several speed test sites. I also check the speed when I download large files - say a 3 GB file for my Garmin GPS. I pay for 25 mbps and get exactly 25 mbps based on the calculated time for the download, as well as the various speed test sites.

The only way to properly test your download speeds is with a large download from a site that that doesn't restrict the download speed and with a wired connection. A non-wired connection is simply not an acceptable method for testing speed and neither is anecdotal evidence of what happens with TV programming.

it seems quite possible that there are points in their infrastructure that don't have the capacity to handle peak.
Although possible, this just doesn't happen any more for people who don't have the highest speed because the infrastructure is there to supply the highest speed most of the time and those on Express or Extreme will get the speed they pay for (wired connection, appropriate modem) The type of bottleneck you mention used to happen in the 1990s, but it doesn't happen any more because Rogers monitors their nodes for traffic and if there is a bottleneck, they upgrade the infrastructure to keep and add customers.

We have many threads/posts in the Rogers internet forum discussing speeds and there are almost no reports of people not getting their speeds and many reports corroborating that they are getting the speeds they pay for. Occasionally people will complain about their speeds but it's almost always due to the router and a wireless connection. When we ask those people to connect with a cable, they invariably get the speed they pay for. Of course there may be the occasional anomaly, however, those are quite rare.
 
#19 ·
I go to several speed test sites.
I'm all ears! Since I think speedtest.net is so bad I use the test suite at DSL reports, but would be interested in learning about others.

I agree with your general skepticism of anecdotal evidence, but doing a proper test would be way to much work. I can assure you that I wouldn't come and make my comments without making a good attempt at figuring out what is going on, but yes, it is still just anecdotal evidence and I don't expect people to put much stock in it unless other people are having the same experience.
 
#20 ·
Speedtest sites: (I'm on Rogers Express - 25 down, 2 up)

http://speedtest.eastlink.ca/
Download Speed: 35629 kbps (4453.6 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1972 kbps (246.5 KB/sec transfer rate)

http://206.47.199.107/ Bell test site - put in any phone number
Download 25.25, Upload 1.97

http://www.rogers.com/web/Rogers.po...eedCheck&cm_mmc=grdrt-_-all-_-en-_-speedcheck Rogers site:
Download 34.05, Upload 1.97

http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ (Chicago)
Download Speed: 68729 kbps (8591.1 KB/sec transfer rate)
Upload Speed: 1962 kbps (245.3 KB/sec transfer rate)

http://speedtest.shaw.ca/ Shaw
Download 26.29 Upload 1.80

http://www.speedtest.net/




The sites that show more than 25 are typically short downloads which are affected by Rogers SpeedBoost technology - when first connected my download sometimes shows as high as 100 mbps, but then goes down to 25 after a few seconds. These tests were all done close to noon on Tuesday - not exactly off-peak!

As stated previously, I'm also updating my Garmin four times a year and those are large files - typically 2-5 GB depending on what I download. When I was on Express 10 mbps, I got 10. When I was on Express 18, I got 18. Now that Express is 25, I get 25.
 
#21 ·
I agree with your general skepticism of anecdotal evidence, but doing a proper test would be way to much work. I can assure you that I wouldn't come and make my comments without making a good attempt at figuring out what is going on, but yes, it is still just anecdotal evidence and I don't expect people to put much stock in it unless other people are having the same experience.
This is a contradictory statement. If you are not willing to do a proper test, you cannot then turn around and state that you wouldn't come here and make comments without making a good attempt.

Again, the home network is usually strung together with cheap, consumer grade products, with various equipment that sometimes doesn't play nice with each other, and people mucking around with the settings.

I don't doubt for a minute you are having a problem, and if your not willing to do the work, you can understand why we are fighting back on the Rogers rant. Until you strip your network down to the modem, cat5 cable from modem to computer, do a full factory reset, unplug all connections, wait 5 minutes, and put them all back in, you cannot properly diagnose what is going on. At this point, you are merely guessing.

FYI: Latency is most certainly a factor in streaming, depending where you are watching it, the buffer size of the receiving end, and how the back end is programmed. Many websites send x amount of traffic, and wait for a response to send more. The speed at which this acknowledgement is received can be imperative.
 
#22 ·
(replying to 57)

But all of those are speedtest.net?

The carriers really want everyone to use speedtest.net, and the carriers use speedtest.net on their sites, but I still don't think it is a good test (as described above).

Actually, if I were shopping for a car, and the car company was promoting and working with a particularly rating/review organization, I would be pretty skeptical.
 
#23 ·
I should clarify that comment a bit.

My negative comments about speedtest.net doesn't mean I doubt that you have the good connection that you are describing. I'm just pointing out that all of those links you posted are the same company (OOKLA, who run speedtest.net) and that I think it is a poor test.

I accept that you have a great connection - I wasn't trying to make any general claims about everyone. Just discussing my experience.

Also, the problems I experience are always in the evening - not during the day.
 
#25 ·
I download just shy of 200 gigs a month, I am on the 75/2 connection, not only do I max out my connection, I exceed what I am paying for. I use usenet servers all over the world. Files easily range from 100megs to 2 Gig whole files. I have an off site FTP server in Toronto, and I am often downloading work files from it, in excess of 5 Gigs, and max out my connection, at all times of the day.

The reason I am telling you to check your network is because of this...... standard def video uses next to no bandwidth, and if you are telling me, that your 3G cell phone connection is suddenly making it work normal, there is something wrong inside the network, either yours or Rogers. I have seen Rogers have network slowdowns, but to the degree you are talking about, I have not read about in years. The highest I have seen Netflix for example consume, is 1.5 Mbps, and that's high for standard def content, I have seen it half that on average. If Rogers was having issues just doing that, you can be sure there would be people everywhere screaming and yelling.

I am not trying to be rude, I am trying to help you solve your problem.
 
#27 ·
The reason I am telling you to check your network is because of this...... standard def video uses next to no bandwidth, and if you are telling me, that your 3G cell phone connection is suddenly making it work normal, there is something wrong inside the network, either yours or Rogers. I have seen Rogers have network slowdowns, but to the degree you are talking about, I have not read about in years. The highest I have seen Netflix for example consume, is 1.5 Mbps, and that's high for standard def content, I have seen it half that on average. If Rogers was having issues just doing that, you can be sure there would be people everywhere screaming and yelling.

I am not trying to be rude, I am trying to help you solve your problem.
Good info. Thanks. Next time it happens I will take a closer look.
 
#26 ·
Okay, we have deviated a bit here (and that is my fault too), but you are saying:

No, they are not, but your mind is made up and no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise.
So I guess I need to go back and review the messages...

I asked about alternatives to Ookla's speedtest.net. You posted six links in response. Five of them say they are Ookla right on them, but for the Shaw one I admit that I was just going based on the name and on the fact that the incumbent carriers all push speedtest.net.

Also, speedtest.net doesn't come into play on my GPS downloads where I calculate the bitrate.
Again, I accept that you are getting your advertised speeds. I asked about that, you answered - that question is resolved.

I'm sorry that my questions have led to this focus on download speeds - I think the sort of line quality and consistency tests at DSL reports are more important. The fact that I can watch my videos without issue on a 3G connection is a reminder to me that I don't really need huge download speeds.

Speaking of which - responding to viper - the fact is that watching video works on 3G in spite of its poor latency. I agree that latency is important, but it has never affected my ability to watch video over cellular and in general I think people are successful in watching video over 3G.
 
#28 ·
Everyone's experience will vary by geography. I've had Rogers internet for a decade now, and have always been getting the advertised speeds and I've only had about 3 outages during that decade, one of which was caused by a toronto hydro crew accidentally cutting my drop while they were digging up the ground.

When I went to university, I moved to a different part of Toronto and signed up with Bell because they had a better promo at the time and the experience was horrible. The connection would frequently drop for days at a time and then miraculously work again for several weeks at top speed before dropping again for several days. Several techs came and did various things but nothing ever solved the issue. When I moved to a different house the following year, I moved my Bell services with me, and it worked flawlessly there. Top speeds all the time and virtually no outages.

My suggestion to the OP is to just sign up for Bell and keep the Rogers connection active and see if it works out better for you. I believe Bell does offer a 30 day money back guarantee as well.
 
#30 ·
Switch from Rogers to Bell for internet last year. Service from Rogers was good, but they could never get faster than 10/1. Switched to Fibe 25/7 for speed and the promo price. I get the full speed, modem hangs once in a while, but overall I'm really satisfied. Now that 25/10 and FibeTV is available, I'm switching my TV sub as well. Install is tomorrow. The overall mothly cost for phone+internet+TV is a bit cheaper, but the $10 unlimited bandwidth is priceless.
 
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