CRTC approves UBB for all Bell *AND RESELLERS* customers - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-12, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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CRTC approves UBB for all Bell *AND RESELLERS* customers

http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2009/2009-484.htm Read it and weep. Bell gets to charge resellers UBB. This evening I ordered a USRobotics USR5637 56K USB Faxmodem (hardware modem is linux compatable) from Tigerdirect. How many Canadians are going to revert to dialup as well as OTA? Actually, I plan to split my usage. Email and updates and other non-interactive stuff will run on dialup. Live365.com internet radio will run on the DSL connection. By playing around with the routing, I can get BOTH running at the same time

OTA brings you crystal-clear, uncompressed HDTV, no simsubbing, and the real SuperBowl commercials. You can't get all that on satellite... OR CABLE.
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-12, 11:37 PM
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From what I understand, UBB will only apply over 300GB. That will not affect very many people. Excessive downloaders and businesses will likely be affected. My concern is that Bell may apply to have the limit lowered with further applications. I suspect that this is the thin edge Bell is looking for.
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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 01:50 AM
 
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And knowing the CRTC, every application will be blindly accepted... as usual.
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 05:44 AM
 
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Theres much longer threads elsewhere, and not going to rehash it, but its 60gb. Anything over will 60gb Bell will charge the ISP.

Basically, fees remain the same from 0 to 60 gigs.
From 60 to 80 gigs, are you billed $1.125
At 80 gigs, this represents a surchange of $22.50

From 80 to 300 gigs, the surcharge remains at $22.50

Above 300 gigs, Bell reserves the right to charge $0.75 per gig, but will initially not do it.


Deathknell of dsl resellers in Canada?
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 10:52 AM
 
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Living in Hickville NB does have one advantage, unlimited and unthrottled internet service.

...for now...
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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 10:59 AM
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I think in the next few years, we will get away from buying HSI based on download speeds and more on bandwidth.

I would suggest that independents will work out new deals with Bell that include speed and bandwidth guidelines and they the resellers can price accordingly.

I am really surprised that companies like Apple have not got involved in this debate. Longer term, low bandwidth caps could really impact their business.
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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 11:50 AM
 
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I would happily pay the surcharges if they drop DPI now. They won't of course.
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 12:47 PM
 
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Whats real funny(NOT) about this, is the Government makes the big Telcos allow space on their lines for the re-sellers.
The Telcos have long complained that the re-sellers make a profitable business out of a free ride on expensive infrastructure.
So now the Government is making sure that the re-sellers can not afford to do business(or not so generous bandwidths and speeds), via a Government(CRTC) mandated rule.

Another great example of just how much open competition hurts the end users in Canada, so no more competition for you.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 12:48 PM
 
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Wow this is really sad.

The CRTC continues to amaze me with their decisions in favour of the big telcos.

I am currently using Bell's basic DSL service and I was seriously thinking of switching to Teksavvy. But now I don't know what to do. If Bell keeps getting their way with putting up limits and barriers for the smaller independent ISPs then our choices for internet service are going to be very limited.

It seems to me Bell's goal here is to drive the independents out of business, or failing that, cut off the services they can offer by as much as possible.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 12:55 PM
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The decision is just absurd. Working for a competitor to Bell and the Bell wholesalers, though, I have to admit that I love it
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 01:44 PM
 
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although I am with Rogers for internet service. I was thinking about switching to teksavy, And this might effect my move over to dual mlppp link, Because I wanted more upstream and a static IP since I can not get it with Rogers. Was this decision approval for last mile wiring or was this the connect at the CO ? I was thinking about using Teksavy with dual mlppp & Peer1 connection.


[--rant--]
this decision actual pisses me off, I have zero trust in the CRTC, they have failed Canadian consumers time in and time out and waiting my complaint that I filed yesterday stated they have no balls to stand up the monopolies in Canada
[--/rant--]

( I really need to rant, is there a thread called I hate the CRTC ? )

Last edited by tbusa; 2009-08-13 at 03:25 PM. Reason: didnt know the rant tags works :)
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 01:45 PM
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I can't believe this went through. This is double dipping any way you look at it. I'm sure that the resellers gave up concessions in price negotiations, with the understanding that they were purchasing bandwidth without user caps.

But I also wonder how many end-users this will actually effect? Personally, I can't imagine using 300GB/month.

Quote:
The Telcos have long complained that the re-sellers make a profitable business out of a free ride on expensive infrastructure.
Who paid for the infrastructure initially? Canadian taxpayers. Bell and Co. got a (almost) "free" ride for years.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alternate View Post
Whats real funny(NOT) about this, is the Government makes the big Telcos allow space on their lines for the re-sellers.
The Telcos have long complained that the re-sellers make a profitable business out of a free ride on expensive infrastructure.
So now the Government is making sure that the re-sellers can not afford to do business(or not so generous bandwidths and speeds), via a Government(CRTC) mandated rule.

Another great example of just how much open competition hurts the end users in Canada, so no more competition for you.
Free Ride?
They pay an arm and a leg every month to just connect their customers using Bell's lines (~$22) and all bell has to do is make sure the lines connected. (e.g. in the rare instance a tree knocks over a pole, fix it.) Most of the time they're just raking in the dough.
On top of that, they charge to have the ISP's bandwidth linked to the CO's/DSLAMs/etc.
So an ISP is paying for their bandwidth from outside sources like cogent, as well as paying to bell to get it to the people.
That's the whole crux of this argument. Bell is selling 1gbps to connect the ISP to the people and then throttles it. I don't go around and sell you tanker of gasoline, then tell you to come back later when it's not busy and i'll give you a little bit.
Now they want to limit every customer regardless, and charge exuberant rates on "bandwidth" overages (I think they should really get a dictionary and bandwidth is not measured in bits, bytes, megabits, megabytes, or anything they say it is. Bandwidth is your SPEED, not how much data you transfer.)
If bell had just matched these ISPs instead of doing all this BS with the CRTC in their pocket, they could've still had a ton of money, as they're lines are essentially free. (most of them have been around forever, and are paid off. Maintenance isn't too much either. I don't think I've ever seen a bell truck fixing lines except for accidents like trees)

After that long rant:
I have no problem with the 60gb cap. However, I do have a problem with the charges remaining the same before that 60gb cap AND the massive markup on "bandwidth" charges per gb. It costs $5/mbit of pure bandwidth from cogent. On that 1mbps, you can do a max 313.28GB per month (avg). That's 1.6 cents per gigabyte that's assuming you use the connection to the max. Let's say Bell doesn't. Not sure why, as they claim congestion, but hey, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. Let's say they use half their capacity on average, throughout the month. That's 3.2cents per GB. They're charging only 3500% what it costs them. (bell wants to charge $1.125 per GB)

Quote:
But I also wonder how many end-users this will actually effect? Personally, I can't imagine using 300GB/month.
Every single one who uses over 60gb. Your bill will go from $30 a month up to $52.50 per month for the exact same service you have now (if you have 200g with teksavvy and use 80g)

Edit: and I think there should be a distinction in the first post: this affects WHOLESALERS as well, too. Resellers just sell Bell's service.. to them, tough. It's Bell's service. But wholesalers actually provide their own service and lease lines from bell (for a contractual rate) and bell is changing the contract on them..
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 01:48 PM
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Re: Rant

tbusa,
see this thread:
The Official I Hate The CRTC Thread


cheers.

Last edited by 99gecko; 2009-08-13 at 03:48 PM. Reason: removed comment about rant tags
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 2009-08-13, 02:13 PM
 
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this is really pathetic, i cannot believe it. the CRTC is so close with helping these big telcos its not even funny. whats next? wait, if something as stupid as this can get through, i cannot imagine how globalive's WIND will have any chance in regards to foreign ownership complaints from the big 3

whats even more ridiculous now is 3rd party ISPs will have to pay $1.25/GB when going over 60GB cap. but Bell's new "bandwidth insurance" will allow their retail customers to purchase 40GB extra for $5 - rate of $0.125/GB for overage - 1/10th of the price.

they are basically agreeing that retail Internet customers and wholesale customers should be treated the same and that this would create regulatory symmetry with the cablecos.. Did the CRTC, who's mandate even states "is to ensure that both the broadcasting and telecommunications systems serve the Canadian public" just use the words "regulatory symmetry"?

so much for the canadian public and having any real competition when it comes to ISPs.. with DPI/throttling and now UBB, we are truly going backwards
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