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Telus Picture Quality vs Competitors

22K views 33 replies 13 participants last post by  izanaki 
#1 ·
Just wondering what others opinions are on Telus HD picture quality is compared to competitors.

I have had Telus Optik TV now for a couple years and I have to say it doesn't seem to be as good compared to Shaw especially with scenes where there is movement like sports. Hockey most notably seems to have more motion blur compared to shaw and overall is softer.

Telus' 4K which I've seen for Toronto Raptor games looks amazing and also CFL 4K games. But that's really it. I cannot get Toronto Leafs games in 4K here in BC due to blackouts.
 
#2 ·
I believe Telus gets its signals from Bell. Bell sends all broadcast channels as 720P, therefore they can look "softer" than say 1080i. Here's the FAQ on the topic:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/30-57s-home-theatre-faqs/76129-faq-hdtv-formats.html

You may wish to set the output format of the STB to 720P to minimize the number of conversions. If you watch on-demand, that may be 1080P, so you can try that...

Do you have a 4K Box? If so, then I seem to recall a thread around here about some signals not looking that great - I'll see if I can find it...
 
#6 ·
First, izanaki, thanks for starting this thread. I was starting to think nobody cared about picture quality any more...

We're on Shaw at the moment (switched from Bell satellite a few years ago to get the whole home PVR). Telus just pulled fibre to the home throughout our neighborhood and have been hard selling Optik 4K. The price & responsiveness of the box are compelling but whenever I've been able to demo it the HD picture looked soft & somewhat artificial to me. Especially sports where there's a lot of grass or ice , even some floors looked blurred. I was wondering if it was compression artifacts. I'd have never considered that decreased resolution would improve the picture. Pretty disappointing.

Has anyone heard if Telus has anything planned to improve the PQ? They don't seem to be aware that it could/should be better. I'll try for another demo, this time in 720P. I'd also be interested in what other people think.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I cannot see the image quality improving with Telus in terms of regular HD content. It would require Telus to increase the bandwidth for HD and Telus wants to save that for 4K. Telus is ready for 4K but they need broadcasters to switch everything over to offer the content.

This means 4K cameras, 4K recording boxes, improved networks and etc.

A few things I did that also improved the image quality was change the settings on my TV. I did the following on my Samsung set:

1.) Disabled Digital Noise Reduction (this softens the image to reduce compression artifacts and noise)
2.) Reduced to Sharpness from 50 to 10. This reduces visual artifacts
3.) Disabled AUTO MOTION as this softens the image.

I'm thinking we're at least 2 whole years until the major TV networks switch everything over to ATSC 3.0

EDIT: The other issue too are that TVs are getting bigger and cheaper and with people getting bigger sets you start to notice the quality difference even more. Sitting 20 feet away with a 42" set with Telus HD looks fine but sitting 8 feet away with a 65" set amplifies any imperfections in compression, artifacts, noise and etc.

Part of my issue is being spoiled with seeing live 4K, 4K youtube, 4K netflix and Blu Ray movies... it makes you hyper sensitive :) Doesn't help when some one is feeding you good quality draft beer then hands you a Molson Canadian 67 ! LMAO

ATSC 2.0 would of greatly improved today's regular HD broadcasts giving us 1080 60p but it was never rolled out in favor waiting for ATSC 3.0 which allows up to 4k 60P and HDR.

Trust me, once you see sports in 4K it will blow your mind and it will be worth wait.
 
#9 ·
I think it will be the same way when HD 1st started to roll out. It’ll happen, just will take around 4 or 5 years from now to be standard fair for all channels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#10 ·
Not an active thread...maybe everyone's satisfied :) I'm not. I just sent this message to Telus. If you agree please don't hesitate to tell Telus. I'm using the 4k Optik PVR and a 2017 LG OLED TV. Same PQ issue with my previous Pioneer Kuro plasma.

"Marketing: here's a money-making opportunity. Improve picture quality and promote Optik as the "best picture" provider to increase subscriber base, or allow a premium option and charge a little extra for the "best picture quality" tier. I'm not referring to 4k or HDR, just regular HD programming which currently suffers from over compression. Particularly noticeable on actors' faces -- their skin looks like smooth hard plastic. Easily seen when viewed close to the screen. Netlflix has notably better HD picture quality than Optik, despite a stream which maxes out below 6 Mbps."
 
#12 ·
I'd love to be able to compare Telus, Bell sat, and Shaw side-by-side. My impressions from having all 3 at one time or another, is that Telus Optik is the worst PQ of the 3, but that may just be rose-coloured memory. I'm suggesting that their incentive would be to make more money by promoting a higher quality service thereby attracting premium subscribers who actually care about PQ, like those of us who frequent these sorts of forums. :) I'll likely just start watching less TV and more streaming and eventually cut the cord.
 
#13 ·
In order for them to make any money there's got to be a significant uptake on the "better" signal. Beside you, me and few dozen aficionados on this and similar fora, nobody is interested or willing to pay for it. That's nowhere enough of a critical mass for them to do anything about it.
 
#16 ·
After calibrating my LG OLED C7, I have no issues with PQ On Telus Optik. I have Telus Fibre, the Arris 4K PVR, all going through an Onkyo TX-NR676 and there are no issues whatsoever. Untiil I calibrated the TV, I was unhappy with the PQ, but after turning off a few features on the TV, it's much improved and I'd say almost perfect. I do not see artifacts of overcompression, etc.
 
#19 ·
For starters, it’s actual 1080p rather than 1080i
I believe Telus gets most of its signals via Bell. Anything (Broadcast Channels) that comes via Bell, like Telus' material is 720P. There is also nothing from broadcast channels that is 1080P, only 720P or 1080i. The output setting on the box can certainly be set to 1080P, however, it's what comes into the box that matters. Mostly, people here are discussing "broadcast channels" and not OTT or OD.

There is some on-demand programming that may be available in 1080P and some OTT services have 4K, along with a select few 4K channels from some providers. Here's the FAQ on the topic:

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/30-57s-home-theatre-faqs/76129-faq-hdtv-formats.html
 
#21 ·
For Telus, if there is an option under user settings or diagnostics, I'd like someone to confirm what the signals are that come into the STB for "HD broadcast channels" (not the output settings of the box). For the HD (broadcast) channels they are either 720P or 1080i since that's what's broadcast, or solely 720P. In that way I can update my FAQs if necessary.

(For satellite TV, Telus does get Bell's signals for many/most/all of the channels. They even use Bell's STBs)
 
#23 ·
I realize that, however Bell Fibe, which is similar to Optik (IPTV), get (most of) their signals from Bell Sat (depending on location). Until I get proof otherwise my comments regarding the incoming signals remain. I am quite sure that the "broadcast channels" are not 1080P since no one "broadcasts" in 1080P, which was the main point of my post 19, responding to the comment in post 18.
 
#25 ·
I recently installed a rooftop antenna to receive OTA (over-the-air) local broadcasts. My criticisms of Telus Optik picture quality are confirmed. The OTA picture is markedly better than Telus. I have an OTA PVR and have been able to record shows on both and compare. The difference varies depending on the program, but the differences are not insignificant. I've caught myself watching some programming just to marvel at the picture quality. In Victoria I get the 4 Canadian networks, PBS, and a couple of independents. All are 1080i except CBC which is 720p. They all appear to broadcast Dolby Digital sound.
Of course OTA is not an option for most people due to location, altitude, regulations etc. And of course, you're limited to local channels. My point is not to suggest that OTA is an option for most people, just that the Telus Optik PQ is noticeable poorer than it could be.
I'll be cancelling my Telus TV sub shortly, as soon as I confirm that my reception is reliable in heavy weather.
 
#26 ·
Update: Telus has updated their software/firmware for the 4K Optik boxes. I have noticed the picture quality has improved on some channels by quite a bit. In fact, some commercials look like 4k. The compression doesn't look to be as bad anymore in both overall clarity and in motion. So I'm not exactly sure what they've done in March of 2019 but I noticed its quite an improvement!

I was watching the History channel that had a regular HD show on, but when it flipped to some commercials the picture had me jump out of my chair it was that good. So something is up! Really nice to see! I did flip channels and noticed the quality improvement there too.

Fingers crossed now for 4K hockey on the West Coast!
 
#27 ·
I have a Telus 4K box and I have no clue what you're talking about.

The 4K channels look amazing, yes.

But the regular channels are just as compressed and low quality as ever. Telus' picture quality for regular HD channels is worse than Shaw for sure.

It's also super annoying that they don't have a "native" output resolution and aren't clear on which channels are broadcast in 720p vs 1080i so you have to guess, resulting in multiple conversions lowering the quality even more.

I have confirmed that Telus outputs it's HD in 5600 kbps vs Shaw's 7800 kbps.
 
#32 ·
I have a Telus 4K box and I have no clue what you're talking about.

The 4K channels look amazing, yes.

But the regular channels are just as compressed and low quality as ever. Telus' picture quality for regular HD channels is worse than Shaw for sure.


It's also super annoying that they don't have a "native" output resolution and aren't clear on which channels are broadcast in 720p vs 1080i so you have to guess, resulting in multiple conversions lowering the quality even more.

I have confirmed that Telus outputs it's HD in 5600 kbps vs Shaw's 7800 kbps.

So just another update from March 8th post. As I said before it only some channels that look better like the History channel. It’s not everything. Sports unfortunately aren’t great compared to Shaw still. My brother in law has a 4K 65” TV on Shaw same set as mine and he does not have the same softness during motion of players, panning and etc. Its primarily Hockey that it is quite noticeable in terms of the difference between Shaw and TELUS. As the players skate across the ice in fast panning shots there is a lot of blurring.

Part of the issue too especially with these newer 4K TV is the up-converting plus the up converting from the set top boxes. That in conjunction with compression and the larger sets increasing the picture size you notice it more.

4K Raptor games or 4K Canadian Football is bloody impressive though on Telus Optik TV. There is no softness or motion blur of players. It’s razor sharp!

Im watching the Formula 1 this season in HD on Optik TV and if you PVR it and compared it to watching it on the internet you can see how bad TELUS is with the fast moving cars. I have the Shanghai Grand Prix recorded and comparing it to watching it on YouTube the difference is astonishing! It’s like wearing glasses for the first time when you see the game on YouTube. It’s so clear and razor sharp compared to TELUS.
 
#28 ·
Don't know if Telus IPTV is piggybacking on Bell's product but I wouldn't be surprised. (Their satellite product does.) It's been reported that everything on Bell is 720p so Telus could be as well. They get around CRTC regulations on downgrading signals by having the broadcasters supply already downgraded 720p signals. Add aggressive compression to limit network bandwidth and the the picture starts to look like a standard definition DVD rather than HD.
 
#29 ·
They get around CRTC regulations on downgrading signals by having the broadcasters supply already downgraded 720p signals.
I'm not sure that's the case. I can't see broadcasters providing a bunch of different formats (pre-converted) for different BDUs. When I looked into this years ago, some broadcasters (like TMN at the time) even provided streams with bitrates as high as 50 mbps to the BDU since that was often supplied by fibre optic. It was then up to the BDU to send the signals to the customer, usually 1080i and 720P (if that was the original format), provided they weren't Bell. Now, most broadcast is 1080i or 720P, so the TMN case was definitely an outlier. Some of the material (movies) available On-demand is available as 1080P, which is how it may be stored on the BDU servers...

Bell argued years ago that 720P fit the definition of HD (which is correct) and were able to fit 10+% more channels onto their transponders, partially by doing this, partially by "bitrate-shaping", etc. There's a lot that goes into the final product that you see on your TV and bitrate or format, or encoding/decoding each have impact.

If you can get into the diagnostics of a particular STB and know where to look, you can "see" the incoming format from the BDU. Rogers have 4K, 1080i, 720P, 480i and 480i (AFD).
 
#30 ·
Regardless of where and how it is converted to 720p, the fact remains that some broadcasters use 1080i for their OTA signal and somehow it ends up as 720p on some BDU systems. Since the BDU is technically prohibited from downgrading signals then it must be done illegally or somewhere else.

In any case, does it make sense to provide 720p format at a time when most people have 1080p or 4K TVs. It's no wonder that people are complaining. As for TMN, I remember it having far superior sound and video to most other channels before some BDUs started messing with it.

I have confirmed that Telus outputs it's HD in 5600 kbps vs Shaw's 7800 kbps.
That could be due to the type of compression being used. Cable systems are often using MPEG2 due to legacy cable equipment. Most IPTV systems use MPEG4 or better and most satellite systems have converted to MPEG4. Even so, 5600Kbps is fairly low for MPEG4 and indicates fairly aggressive use of lossy compression. If its MPEG2, 7800Kbps is even worse since it is about half as efficient as MPEG4. However, the effective bitrate depends on the compression type, channel format and also the original programming's bitrate and format. ATSC provide 19200Kbps for an HD signal. Though not always fully used, the effective signal is usually much higher than 7800Kbps so BDU signals will pale in comparison. Even an ATSC3 signal with 2 HD signals allows about 9600Kbps for one MPEG4 HD signal so 5600Kbps will look poor in comparison.
 
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