4 bay antenna question - Page 3 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #31 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-04-09, 06:38 PM
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For UHF, Bigger is Better. For Hi-VHF, Best WIDTH is about 32-inches...at 28-in and smaller the Hi-VHF Pattern is stronger out the BACK. Spacing of Vertical Wires makes minimal difference.
Spacing of Horizontal Wires reaches BEST performance at 1-in Separation....and minimal improvement if using METAL Hardware Mesh with 1/2-in Separations.

Commonly used Screen Reflector with 1" H x 2" W (or 3" or 4" W) Grid Size.

Antenna Simulations, Overload Calculations, etc: http://imageevent.com/holl_ands
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post #32 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-04-15, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Today I had a chance to try out the U4000 without the preamp. Not good results. Lost all of the Dayton signals except Ch. 2 (virtual channel). Put the CM 7777 Titan back in place and everything was back to normal.

I then decided to try the EV 6165 antenna without the preamp. Cincy stations were essentially the same as the U4000 but Ch. 2 from Dayton was now pixelating badly. I then added the Titan pre amp. All the Dayton signals were back though they were weaker than the U4000 with the pre amp. This test seems to confirm what I learned in Indianapolis. The U4000 is a decent 4 bay. The EV did pick up a Ch. 43 signal off the side which the U4000 could not unless it was pointed in that direction.

For a lark I then tried a Antennacraft HBU22. Shocking. With the pre amp I am getting the very same reception strength on the Dayton signals as the U4000! Didn't bother to try the HBU22 without the pre amp since I am certain I would lose everything from Dayton again.

Will be installing a rotor and possibly get the Winegard 4 bay up there next month. And add the Delhi VIP 302SR for VHF. That will likely be my permanent antenna setup for this location.
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post #33 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-04-15, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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I've since discovered after leaving the HBU22 in place for now a multi path problem. While I didn't have one with the MXU 59 with the pre amp, Super G 1483 with the pre amp or even the U4000 with the pre amp, I am seeing the picture break up from time to time on a couple of channels now. Have had each antenna pointed at 15 degrees and situated at about 17 to 20 feet above ground.

It is my understanding that Yagi's are usually good at rejecting multi path signals in urban areas like I am in. Same with the 8 bay antennas. 4 bay antenna's supposedly are not good for rejecting multi path based upon what I've read due to their wide reception pattern yet the U4000 worked very well here.

Could this problem with the HBU22 be due to the fact it is a much shorter Yagi with less elements than the MXU59?
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post #34 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-04-25, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
 
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Just for kicks I ordered a Televes DAT 790 Mix to try out. Worked great for a day and a half. Got home from work late Monday night and turned on the TV for a few minutes only to find all but only a few of the strongest local channels were still coming in. And they were weak. After doing some trouble shooting it appears to be the built in pre amp. Unfortunately the antenna will not work properly without it. Not even going to return it ir replace it. Will likely buy the Winegard 4400 or maybe the 8800 since I also have found a few of those are still available.
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post #35 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-07-09, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
 
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Found out the pre amp on the Televes 790 somehow stopped working for a while. I found by taking the antenna down and keeping it unplugged for a few days solved the problem. Have had similar problems over the years with other electronics. Same solution solved the problem. Now have the Televes back up and it works OK.
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post #36 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-07-11, 05:41 AM
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Or.....it was a CONNECTOR Problem that was "Fixed" by cleaning the inner copper wire and/or wiggling the connectors......

Antenna Simulations, Overload Calculations, etc: http://imageevent.com/holl_ands
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post #37 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-07-13, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hollands. A coax cable did fail but it happened after the other problem cropped up. The coax got mangled after I took the antenna down the first time. In other words, reception was fine for a couple of days but suddenly stopped even though I did not touch the coax at all. When I took down the antenna I did end up damaging the coax but I since replaced it with one that is better. Have found the Quad Shield from RCA is quite good.
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post #38 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-07-14, 12:35 AM
 
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have you even considered trying the channel master 7778 pre-amp cause it's not as strong as the 7777 pre-amp so it's less prone to overloads.sounds like your getting an over kill from the Dayton or Cincinnati channels which ever one your closes too.i live in Hamilton about 2 miles from the Hamilton tower and if I use an 7777 amp it over kills and I lose a lot of the buffalo stations but with the 7778 pre-amp I get them all strong with the Toronto and Hamilton and buffalo stations pointing the cm 8 bay attenna half way inbetween Toronto and buffalo.so I sugest you try an 8 bay channel master attenna with an 7778 pre-amp half way between Dayton and Cincinnati and it should work just fine for all your channel needs
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post #39 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-07-24, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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means. Thanks for the suggestion. Need a rotor at my location. I am getting more reliable reception now that I have a rotor in place than when I didn't.

Actually I don't think I am getting that much overload if any at my location from the 7777. Initially I used the RCA pre amp which has lower gain and I didn't seem to get any overload from that. Swapped it out for the 7777 which has a bit more gain and it seems to help when I use the U 4000, MXU 59 or Super G 1483.

May consider the 8 bay though because I still get some dropouts during storms with the Televes antenna. When I tried my Super G 1483 8 bay here not only was the gain better but I also did not experience any multpath dropouts like I have when using the Yagi style antennas. But if I use an 8 bay I will buy something new. Super G 1483 is no longer made and would be better used in a rural area at some point. Best to save it for when I really need it.

Dayton is 50 miles from me but the Cincy stations are right near me or at least some of the towers. Despite this I get everything I should according to my TV Fool report. That means something seems to be working right. :-)
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post #40 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-09-26, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
 
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Hollands. Do you have the link for the Model for the DB4E antenna? I can't find it on your website. Now that I am back to deciding which 4 or 8 bay to use (DAT 790 overloads here with the built in pre amp) I want to compare it to the 4221 HD. Looks like the 4221 HD with the balun flipped and the plastic removed is comparable to the 4228 HD in gain. Pretty remarkable.
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post #41 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-09-26, 10:20 PM
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I've never seen an Antenna Model for DB-4e or DB8e, nor DETAILED Measurements from which to prepare a Model.

However, what you need is probably on the fol. DB-4e Technical Data Sheet:
https://www.antennasdirect.com/cmss_...y/DB4E-TDS.pdf

What is remarkable is how POORLY the CM4228HD performs (at least as modeled)....which is why I prepared HHH Mod:
CM4228HD with UHF Hollands Horiz Harness

Which makes it roughly EQUAL to DB-8e (after you include 0.5 to 1.5 dB LOSS in the RF Combiner used in DB-8):


Antenna Simulations, Overload Calculations, etc: http://imageevent.com/holl_ands
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post #42 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-09-27, 07:51 PM
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BTW: Although DB-8e is a GOOD Antenna, formed by TWO Horizontally Stacked 4-Bays (presumably a pair of DB-4e's)....but there ARE some Stacked Antennas and large Parabolics that provide MUCH higher Gain....with MUCH narrower Beamwidths, making careful aiming fairly critical:


Antenna Simulations, Overload Calculations, etc: http://imageevent.com/holl_ands
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post #43 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-09-28, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Thanks. Doing more research and reading reviews on current antennas again. Will make a decision about which one to purchase pretty soon. Now that I don't have to worry about Ch. 26 which is going to be extinct thanks to the Repack, it makes buying a new antenna a little easier.
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post #44 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-10-08, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
 
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Bought a 4221. Have not tried any hacks just yet. Wanted to see how it would work out of the box. Gain on the upper channels is a bit lower than the U4000 but still adequate..

As luck would have it I just installed it yesterday and last night thanks to a high wind storm, the coax from the Titan pre amp to the TV became disconnected. I even used some electrical tape to hold it in place. Didn't work.

Would using Botch 2228 tape over the Botch 33 help to firmly secure the coax into the pre amp and prevent the wind from disconnecting it again? Also, is there some kind of weather proof coax sealant that I can use that will keep water out of the tape doesn't work?
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post #45 of 55 (permalink) Old 2017-10-09, 03:05 AM
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You can apply a small dab of Dielectric Grease on the Threads of thee Preamp's Type-F Connectors to help seal out moisture:
Silicone Dielectric Grease
Super Lube 3 oz. Tube Silicone Hi-Dielectric & Vacuum Grease-91003 - The Home Depot

BOTH Preamp AND Coax Downlead need to be SECURELY ATTACHED to the Mast [rather than flying around in the wind...and every several feet thereafter]. Preamp attaches using supplied C-Clamp and Coax Downlead with Waterproof Tape, such as you mentioned above, for example see Installation Instr. for Winegard Preamps:
User Manual For Winegard TV Antenna HDP
BTW: Old CM7777/8 Instructions show a TIE-WRAP. This should NOT be used since it is likely to CRUSH the soft Foam-Insulation inside CAT-6 Coax [many years ago it would have been OKAY with the very robust RG-59 with HARD PLASTIC Insulation]:

Antenna Simulations, Overload Calculations, etc: http://imageevent.com/holl_ands
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