CBC HD Hockey - Split from Official CBC Thread - Page 49 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

post #721 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-07, 08:40 AM
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 978
RE: Post 716

I received a reply from the Technical Producer regarding that game. There was no cropping of the cameras. They are not the same cameras. NBC, Versus and CBC mounted their own. There is no signal reduction or bandwidth conservation techniques applied in the truck at all, with the exception of the MPEG encoding required to send the feed back to the studio. All broadcasters face the same challenge in that respect since we have the same choice of back haul providers.

FYI An Engineer has been assigned to look at ways to optimize the HD path in general, starting with the mobiles.

CBC English Radio, TV and web streaming.
Marc is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #722 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-07, 09:14 AM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (DB4e & VHF-HI folded dipole, AP-2870 pre-amp in Attic), MythTV HTPC
Posts: 6,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc
There is no signal reduction or bandwidth conservation techniques applied in the truck at all, with the exception of the MPEG encoding required to send the feed back to the studio.
Marc, does CBC uncompress this signal in the studio and then recompress it for broadcasting? If so, finding a way of broadcasting the original signal without uncompressing it should improve the PQ.
roger1818 is online now  
post #723 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-07, 01:20 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 978
Didn't we already have this conversation?
Leaving the arena the signal is compressed to anywhere from 40-80 Mbits/sec. We shoot for the maximum the return path can carry. It's decoded to 1.5G for closed captioning, graphic keying, wild tape items, web streaming, commercial insertion, etc, etc. After this 'packaging' it is encoded again to around 20 Mbits to meet ATSC specifications.
The big quality hit comes from bit rate reduction, not the encode/decode. Less encode/decode is better, but if you start with a higher bit rate you get acceptable results. At the end of the day the bit rate reduction is mandatory, and the vast majority of packaging equipment works in the 1.5G environment, not MPEG.

CBC English Radio, TV and web streaming.
Marc is offline  
post #724 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-07, 02:32 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Kelowna, BC: TH-50PZ800, Toshiba 62HMX84, Sharp LC37D43U, Motorola 6412 (2), Motorola 6416
Posts: 266
I noticed last night...on two scenes only, that i had what looked like a cluster of dead pixels on my plasma. I am thinking it was the camera. Anyone else notice this? I noticed it the most after they won the cup and they showed Niedermayer's mom...
Poopie D is offline  
post #725 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-07, 05:04 PM
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Toronto, Ontario - 2 TiVo S1s, TiVo S3, Xbox 360, PS3, Dell HD Plasma 4200, Rogers Digital
Posts: 165
Marc:

Clearly you understand this stuff better than most of us - especially me. But, myself and my friend compared many paused shots side by side (one from the NBC feed and one from the CBC feed). They looked to us like they were from the same camera. Both recorded on the same TiVo Series 3 PVR recorded at the exact same time. In the MANY places we compared throughout the multi-hour broadcast, the NBC HD signal was far crisper, cleaner, sharper AND there was much more on the screen - the CBC signal appeared cropped.

Clearly if you used different cameras, then nothing was cropped, the CBC camera was just zoomed in further then. But that then is, from our perspective, a problem.

I'm not a hockey fan - my friend is. But we both lament at how CBC doesn't seem to take advantage of what HD offers. The camera is zoomed in further than it needs to be (or at least further in than the NBC broadcast) and you loose the greater scope. Hockey is the perfect sport for HD given the shape of the rink. But, while nicer than regular TV, CBC's HD doesn't do as good a job as it can.

I don't know what all the technical reasons are, and I'm sure CBC is doing its best to provide a quality product, but when given the choice, based on what we observed through multiple tests, we'll take the U.S. HD broadcast over the CBC broadcast any night. (Well, except for Don Cherry - I still love him and his outfits - even though my buddy doesn't.)

...Dale
Dajad is offline  
post #726 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-07, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brossard, PQ
Posts: 275
I would choose the exact opposite. The NBC feed had a glare coming off the ice whereas on the CBC feed the ice was neutral. Color and clarity were about the same on both.
SonyWE610Owner is offline  
post #727 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-07, 11:53 PM
57
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Toronto, Rogers, 9865 & 8300-eHDD, Panasonic TCP65S1, Denon AVR4310Ci; Sony KDL40W3000, 8300-eHDD
Posts: 53,323
On another forum, there were nothing but complaints about the PQ on NBC. It sounds to me that a lot depends on the combination of:

- Affiliate
- Service provider (if applicable)
- STB
- STB settings
- TV
- TV settings
- Etc.

57's Optimization Services (Home Theatre Optimization) . . . . 57's Home Theatre (Latest equipment & photos)
57 is offline  
post #728 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-08, 06:33 AM
EFP
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 242
Thumbs down Stanley Cup Quality Concern - CBC feed.

You know the part after the team wins the cup and all the players take turns parading Stanley across the ice? Anyone notice how horrible the ice level camera footage looked?
It was soft and the colours were washed up. No depth in the picture. Blacks were greenish, whites were greenish and every time there was a light source in the shot the thing would smear all to S***. Shaky shots shooting up the nostrils of the players.

See the difference when CBC switched to one of the interview cameras? Beautiful clean and crisp picture.

Come on - this is “the part” of historical footage they re-run year after year and this year with HD going strong in sports they decide to use a cheap handy-cam??? Did they hire a cheap inexperienced “VJ” with consumer gear?

I doubt this crap camera belonged to the CBC. It either originated from NBC or the NHL supplied the feed - but people should complain about this. If you weren’t happy with this – I urge you to voice your concerns to the CBC. They have a lot of pull with the NHL and they should be made aware that Canadians wont put up with this crap…
EFP is offline  
post #729 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-08, 09:07 AM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (DB4e & VHF-HI folded dipole, AP-2870 pre-amp in Attic), MythTV HTPC
Posts: 6,224
And don't forget personal taste. Some people prefer bright, high contrast images while others prefer more subdued, "natural" looking images.
roger1818 is online now  
post #730 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-06-08, 06:01 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 29
FYI.....The NHL decided to have an RF Camera that was a pool feed for NBC, CBC, RDS, and NHL International to share for post game on ice celeb.
This was to keep the litany of cables and people off the ice to a minimum to limit the normal chaotic post game.
The camera was in the NBC mobile and fed to the remining three broadcasters.
zornt is offline  
post #731 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-11-05, 02:26 PM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Ottawa (Stittsville), ON, OTA (DB4e & VHF-HI folded dipole, AP-2870 pre-amp in Attic), MythTV HTPC
Posts: 6,224
As an update to Post #339, I did a count of the number of games the CBC is showing for the 2007/2008 season and here are the results:

Toronto: 28
Ottawa: 20
Montreal: 17
Calgary: 14
Vancouver: 14
Edmonton: 13

They also have 2 games that only have American teams.

Since I am a Sens fan I thought I would also post the number of Ottawa games each network shows:

CBC: 20
A-Channel: 20
SNet: 20
TSN: 6
PPV: 7

Total: 73 of 82.

So the good news is almost half the Ottawa games are available OTA, but the bad news is that 9 games aren't being shown in Canada. Four of those are on Saturdays, so CBC probably owns the rights to them and is choosing not to show them for one reason or another and two are 10:30PM starts so are probably considered too late to generate much of an audience. Not sure why no one wants to show the other 3 games.
roger1818 is online now  
post #732 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-12-03, 09:37 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary , AB
Posts: 17
Audio is not 5.1

I've just connected up my first ever home theatre system to my shaw PVR and tuned into the calgary vs blue jackets game (dec 1st 2007) . I am only getting sound from the front left, right and centre, nothing from the surrounds. I know that they are setup correctly because both national geographic and discovery work in 5.1. Is this normal for HNIC in HD to be like this?
roughneck42 is offline  
post #733 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-12-09, 01:19 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 154
5.1 audio

Yes, I find that the Toronto game is always in full 5.1 and then the 2nd game there is usualy some sort of problems. Last night I had 5.1 for the first game and none for the second. PQ was great for both though, although the camera man had a hard time keeping up for the second game!
mdelleman is offline  
post #734 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-12-09, 07:47 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,316
yeah the West game is usually not 5.1 I have noticed. I usually only watch the West game, being a Canucks fan. I watch other east games on NHL CI before usually.
polaris is offline  
post #735 of 974 (permalink) Old 2007-12-29, 07:22 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ottawa (Barrhaven)Toshiba 37HL57 LCD , SA8300HD, Rogers, Homemade HTPC running GBPVR/Hauppage 150
Posts: 64
Dec 29 Ottawa vs Washington - poor HD PQ on Rogers

Anyone else noticing the poor PQ of the Ottawa game , yet when they switch to show clips from the Toronto/Rangers games the HD is perfect. The main game camera seems to be a bit overcompressed/blurred but the ice level cameras seem good. I have noticed this several times if there is a split feed when Ottawa is playing the same night as Toronto.
Mike Demers is offline  
Closed Thread

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome