Burn in (Image Retention) Observation - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-13, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Burn in (Image Retention) Observation

I was at Visions Electronics the other day and I went to the back room to check out the big plasmas. When I went back there, they had a Samsung, Panasonic and Pioneer all side by side. Now I don't understand why somebody didn't notice the same static image (all sets running on the same signal) on all three of these sets, but it made clear which of these three have great burn in resistance. It was not the Samsung, and to my surprise not even the Panasonic. The Pioneer was the only one out of these three that had no hint of burn in from that static image. Now I have no idea how long this image was on these screens, but I would gather that it was the same amount of time as the 3 sets were on the same signal. It was certainly an eye opener.

Just thought I would let you know.
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-13, 06:06 PM
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You have no idea how long the TVs have been on. One could have been on for months, the other could have been on for weeks and the Pioneer could have been on for hours. Burn in is cumulative over a long period of time - months or years. Also the settings the TV is on can have an impact. Also, what you saw may have been image retention, not burn in.

See: FAQ - Burn In & Break In.

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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-13, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
 
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No I don't know how long the tv's have been on, but since I've seen this display up at Visions for some time it is safe to assume that each set had most likely the same amount of time with the static image. As for the tv's being on, I have never not seen them on when I have gone in there so I would gather that they are always on when the store is open. I don't know of any electronics store that does not turn on there tvs when the store opens up.

It was just a friendly observation, and it definitely showed me how much better the Pioneer is at resisting this, be it image retention or burn in. And as the Pio 60" is one of the sets I'm looking at for a dedicated ht, this helped me eliminate the plasma competition.
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-13, 09:34 PM
 
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Sorry. But your "observation" which leads you to an assumption which helped lead you to eliminate the plasma competition is pretty baseless. Don't give up your day job...

The default settings of plasma TVs are not the same. Some have it set brighter, others are set lower. Unless you are standing there in the store for 24-hours by 7 days since those plasmas were installed, and set the settings properly, you have absolutely no way to base any solid recommendation.

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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-13, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Why would I give up my day job? So I can troll threads and hand out sarcastic comments like you? No thanks.

I don't see how it is baseless. Same sets with a static image on screen for obviously a long period of time set at out of the box settings. Even if the sets were at a lower setting, you are telling me that this would have no chance of happening? Now who is fooling themselves.

And I wasn't making a recommendation, just eliminating inferior plasmas.
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 12:29 AM
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You were not eliminating inferior plasmas. You were making a whole bunch of assumptions and then jumped to a conclusion and you don't even know if it's burn in or image retention, or what the settings were on the TVs, or how long the TVs have been on display.

What lawman and I were doing was clarifying that your observations may not necessarily indicate that one TV has superior burn in protection, as implied by your first post.

As indicated in my link in post 2, all plasmas will get burn in if you leave certain static images on them for long enough. The amount of time before burn in will depend on the static image (black bars are the worst) and the settings on the TV during that operating time.

Just as an FYI, I believe Panasonic will be making the panels for Pioneer soon. Pioneer doesn't have any "magic" that decreases burn in possibility from an on-screen static image, relative to other good brands out there.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
 
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Sure I was eliminating inferior plasmas. Is Pioneer not the most highly regarded plasma anymore? Has Samsung and Panasonic taken over this mantle? I have seen no literature stating this fact. If you have some info on this, please forward it to me so I can change my view.

It doesn't matter how long the tv's have been on display, what matters is that I know they have been up for a while and on out of the box settings, I have seen them before running hd programming and that sometime after that point a static image was emblazened on them for a good long time. Be it image retention or burn in, the Pioneer was the best of the three for resistance against this as it showed no effects.

And as for Pioneer using Panasonic panels, I've known this for some time and consider this is a step backwards and a cost cutting measure on Pioneers's part. They were the ones who always advanced this tech the furthest.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 09:41 AM
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Not wanting to flog a dead horse any more here, but the what the others are saying is that you are reaching a conclusion based on incomplete information.

It is entirely possible to setup a Pioneer plasma so that you can have severe burn-in. Similarly, you can set up a Samsung plasma so that it doesn't.

Yes, Pioneer makes good plasmas. But for that matter so does Panasonic.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 09:56 AM
 
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One of the main reasons I'm going for the Pioneer Elite (other than superior PQ of course) is the reviews and tests have emphasized the superior Anti-Image retention mechanisms built into them.

I am really afraid of image retention/burn in and although I was fully aware of the superior PQ of the Kuro I was still trying to find an LCD alternative. Unfortunately there isn't one.

I want the Plasma with the best PQ and IR prevention/control. Fortunately the Pioneer Elite Kuro provides both .
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 10:06 AM
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Don't get fooled by Pioneer marketing. All current plasmas that I am aware of have things like orbiters/image shifts and brightness limiters in them.

I have all of them turned off on my NEC (which is actually a Pioneer Elite rebadged) because they impact image quality.

The best and most effective burn-in prevention mechanisms are:
1. Turn down the contrast
2. Don't leave static images on for extended periods.
3. Vary your viewing.

I can guarantee you that if you put CNN on a Pioneer Elite/Panasonic/Samsung/LG/etc for a couple of weeks solid you will have burn-in. Phosphor is phosphor.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
It doesn't matter how long the tv's have been on display, what matters is that I know they have been up for a while
This comment indicates that you don't understand the mechanism of burn in, as discussed in my link in post 2 (have you read it?). You cannot get burn in over a period of hours. It takes months or years.

If you wish to state that image retention seems more severe on the other TVs in a matter of hours, then perhaps that would be an accurate statement.

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 57 View Post
This comment indicates that you don't understand the mechanism of burn in, as discussed in my link in post 2 (have you read it?). You cannot get burn in over a period of hours. It takes months or years.

If you wish to state that image retention seems more severe on the other TVs in a matter of hours, then perhaps that would be an accurate statement.
Yes I do understand what burn in is. I've read your link and found it somewhat informative, but I have read differing opinions from other reputable sources from competing forums.

And couldn't repeated ir such as what you could get from black bars and static logos cause the uneven phosphur wear (that you mentioned in your write up) lead to burn in? I know if you maintain your screen by using the programmed screen wipes and alternating programming this will limit ir/bi from happening. But who wants to worry about this? Why not just get the set that has the best resistance to it? And from what I have seen, it is the Pioneer.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Why not just get the set that has the best resistance to it? And from what I have seen, it is the Pioneer.
Unless you know for sure that each display has been running the exact same material for the same amount of time you can't draw any conclusions about the relative merits of one set versus the other.

We aren't disputing what you are seeing, just the conclusions you are drawing from it.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 11:22 AM
 
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I can guarantee you that if you put CNN on a Pioneer Elite/Panasonic/Samsung/LG/etc for a couple of weeks solid you will have burn-in. Phosphor is phosphor.
Why on earth would anyone buy a plasma for the above purpose? That is what I'll be buying a smaller second (LCD) for, all the programming with static images.

I guess I'll have to buy the Pioneer Elite and suffer with (what my eyes perceive as) superior picture quality.

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 2008-12-14, 11:38 AM
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Well, because they believed the manufacturers claims that their anti-burnin features have somehow made it safe no matter what they do.

I never said that the Elite didn't have superior quality. I own one myself.

The point I was making is that some of anti-IR features have an impact on image quality. If you really want the best picture you need to turn them off and follow the three guidelines I mentioned.
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