QC - South Shore, Eastern Townships, Northern NY and VT - Page 5 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums

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post #61 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-28, 04:35 PM
 
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Location: Brampton, Ontario
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The amplified local signal can overload and damage your tuner. However, at 63km from Mt. Mansfield you aren't really local. Are the signals from Mt. Mansfield strong?

Have a look here for "attenuators" which can reduce the stronger local signals and remove overload risk.
Splitters, Attenuators, Filters, Diplexers, Other Signal Gear

The CM 4228 is effective for channel 13 and others in the VHF band. (a benificial quirk of this UHF antenna)

Last edited by timbo; 2007-03-28 at 04:54 PM.
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post #62 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-28, 06:27 PM
 
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Thanks Timbo....I think I'll try testing with the 4228 NO preamp first and see what happens with WCFE. If I need a pre-amp, will go with an attenuator as you suggested.
Will the KW of the signal I'm trying to pick up have any bearing on my reception? The Mt. Mansfield channels I'd like to get are bet 628 KW and 1000 KW. I'm at 63 km from tower....am I good?
Sorry about asking here but got no response when I posted in the forum for my geographic location.

Thanks
Itch
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post #63 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-28, 06:29 PM
 
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How would you aim your antenna to get each location optimally?
Are they in a straight line shot from your location, or would you need to rotate the antenna?
How many degrees rotation between each location?

Assuming you would need to rotate, you could aim between the two locations. Rotate the antenna to maximize signal from Plattsburg. Then see what the signal is like from Mt Mansfield.
(1) If Mt Mansfield is strong enough (but not over-powering) to get a reliable signal you are set.
(2) If Mt Mansfield is not strong enough, slowly rotate towards Mt Mansfield until you barely get enough signal for a reliable lock. Hopefully you will not lose Plattsburg.
(3) If Mt Mansfield is still too strong rotate away from Mt Mansfield slowly to get their signal down to a safe level. Hopefully you will not lose Plattsburg in the process.

Your goal is necessarily not to get 100% signal strength, but to just get enough signal to lock onto both locations reliably. I would like to say you need to get, say 60% signal strength for reliable reception, but the signal strength meters of different TV vary wildly for what is required to get a lock. So one tuner may need 80% for its tuner strength meter, while another will happily tune to its 40% signal strength reading.

Attenuators are an option, but playing with the aim can often get good results controlling excess signal strength. Of course it helps to have an rotor to do this in 1 degree increments.

Good luck.

CM 4228, 9775 preamp, 9521A rotor. MythTV server. Details here.
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post #64 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-28, 06:40 PM
 
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zounder1....Great info!!
As to your Q's: Mt Mansfield is at 194.4 from my location, whereas Plattsburgh is at 247.6. It's my understanding that with the CM 4228 you only have a 15 degree window without rotating the antenna.
My plan was to test each location manually first, and if all good, get a rotor at that point. But your suggestion sounds like a genius idea!! I could just set the rotor as to not hit the closer location "dead-on" to keep signal level safe....hadn't thought about that. I just got a hitachi plasma and was planing on using it's tuner. Is that a wise choice, or should I get an external tuner? Wouldn't want to cook my new tv. If I use the hitachi...will it tell me the signal stength coming in?

Thanks,
Itch
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post #65 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-28, 11:44 PM
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Itch71 in Sutton, you'll probably want a rotor, so that eventually you can get the Montreal stations, too. (and you can use it for analog -- you should be able to get:

7
8(TR)
9 (orford)
10
11(orford)
12
13(TR)
16
17
22
24(orford)
30 (orford)
33
35.

You should have a good shot at Mount Mansfield, depending on your location. You may have trouble with Lyon Mountain if Mont Pinacle is in your way. Check out the direct path on maps.google.com.

As for WVNY-DT on ch 13, try it out. You may have some intererence from CKTM in Trois Rivieres. The high band VHF gain on a 4228 is acceptable, but may not be enough for fringe reception.

For the directional pattern for a 4228, check out www.hdtvprimer.com. There is a very good antenna section, and the site provides gain charts for several antennas, including the 4228. Note the gain is different for different channels across the UHF band, so you may get lucky with a high gain lobe for WCFE on ch 38.

In general, preamps are to compensate for long cable lengths (greater than 50 or 75 feet or so). If you can manage a shorter length of RG6, you may not need a preamp.

It's worth a try. You should be able to get the UHF Mt Mansfield stations.

TVl
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post #66 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-29, 10:45 AM
 
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Thanks for the info tvlurker. You're right about Mt Pinnacle being in the way of Lyon Mountain. Really my best shot is Mt Mansfield. Don't think I'll have any luck with Orford...due to close hills in that direction. If I point at Mansfield I will have trees 50ft higher than my antenna height about 200 feet away, do you think that's a problem? Is there a rule of thumb for trees or is it basically just trial and error?

Itch

Last edited by Itch71; 2007-03-29 at 10:52 AM.
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post #67 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-29, 01:20 PM
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At 200 feet away those trees hopefully won't be much of a problem, but as they get more leafy in the spring/summer/autumn and you find that you're getting interference or weak signal from Mt. Mansfield then you should think about a 20 to 40 foot tower, meaning a long cable length and a deep fringe setup. I agree with tvlurker that you will need a rotor.

The autumn in the Eastern Townships is so beautiful that one wishes it would last forever, but as an OTA geek I'd be impatient for all those beautiful leaves to go away!
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post #68 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-29, 01:54 PM
 
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I totally agree with you stampeder. Line of sight looks ok now with no leaves on the trees, but who knows once they start filling in. Nice thing is that I own the land they are on, so might consider stacking up on firewood for the next few years!!

Thanks
Itch
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post #69 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-29, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itch71 View Post
You're right about Mt Pinnacle being in the way of Lyon Mountain.
I was visiting some friends on rue du Pinacle near des Erables about 10 years ago, and I was able to get Orford 7/9/11/24/30 no problem. Plattsburg was iffy, but Mt Mansfield came in fairly well. I don't think WCFE Lyon Mountain came in at all. They had a VHF/UHF yagi with a rotor on (I think) a 20ft or so tower. It was the summer, so there was skip going on, but there were signals from Trois Rivieres, Montreal, Mt Orford, Mt Mansfield, Newport, St Johnsbury, Cornwall. Back then we got Mt Washington, too, but that's gone now. I think only the high-powered stations from Montreal (2/6/10/12/17/35) came in well. Of course, the lead-in was old and I'm sure not RG-6.

TVl
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post #70 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-03-30, 09:34 AM
 
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Thanks for all your help everyone....I really appreciate it!

Itch
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post #71 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-05-09, 12:51 AM
 
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Lightbulb Saint-Hubert - Greetings everyone,

I'd like to start by thanking everyone here. I've been reading a good 20 hours or so and got things going fairly well.

A big thanks to Stampeder, 57 and Roger1818 for their time and good infornation (thanks to everyone else as well).

After your recommendations my current set-up:

CM 4228
(on roof (was wanting to put in attic but Stampeder made me change my mind =) Clearing roof by 6 feet))

Samsung dtb-h260f

Located south shore of Montreal (9 miles from Mont-Royal direct line of sight).
(Saint-Hubert, just north of Promenade St-Bruno (Chemin Chambly & Gaetan Boucher)
Lat and Long = 45.504505 -73.403524

With direct hook-up I get 13 channels (Digital):
2-1
3-1,2
5-1,2
6-1
22-1,2 (at 2.5 strengh metter)
33-1,2
44-1,2
57-1

All other channels are at full strengh.

I now added around 10 feet (RG6), plus grounding block, plus lighting arrestor (or surge protector (round thing that screws into an "F" connector).

And get most channels at strengh 7 now.


My questions:

1- Should I be getting any other channels?
2- I am now using the ant out from the H260F, to the TV, to use the NTSC tuner, but I am getting pretty crappy picture. Should I split it before?
3- Should I trim excess cable (I got a couple of feet here and there in case I need to move things around.
4- Any way to have the H260F tune analog channels?
5- Any thing else I should try (pre-amp, rotor or other)?

I was planning on dropping BEV (got basic plan with them). Thats the reason why the wife "approved" the project. But most of HER french analog channels are comming in either ghosty or grainy. So I enjoyed ripping holes in the walls and roof but she isn't to happy about the 650$ that went for my fun =)

PS last thing... Anything else suppose to go Digital (French programming wise)?


Many thanks...

Newb =)

Last edited by digitalnewb; 2007-05-09 at 12:57 AM.
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post #72 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-05-09, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
PS last thing... Anything else suppose to go Digital (French programming wise)?
There's hope to have TVA-HD (UHF 59) within 2 years. (They are on Illico). Then TQS (UHF 42 when the mont-Royal is ready) TQS-HD should exist on cable next september. Tele-Quebec (UHF 27)...someday
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post #73 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-05-09, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
But most of HER french analog channels are comming in either ghosty or grainy
Have you try redirecting the attenna? Try to put Mont-Royal in direct line with the back of your antenna. Then turn it toward Mansfield until you see ghost. You will most likely be able to balance analog reception from montreal and HD from mansfield. From where you are you should have very good reception of sherbrook (TQS 30 and Tele Quebec 24).

Quote:
1- Should I be getting any other channels?
No other Digital. Analog you can give a try to 27 and 52 (Just for fun). 52 will eventually be on 41 dt.
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post #74 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-05-09, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalnewb
2- I am now using the ant out from the H260F, to the TV, to use the NTSC tuner, but I am getting pretty crappy picture. Should I split it before?
Not sure about this one. It is possible that this is your problem. For the few bucks a splitter costs it is worth a try (you can always return it if it doesn't help).

Quote:
3- Should I trim excess cable (I got a couple of feet here and there in case I need to move things around.
If you have like 20 feet of extra cable, go for it, but a couple feet here and there shouldn't cause you any problems and as you said, it might be useful if you need to move things around.

Quote:
4- Any way to have the H260F tune analog channels?
Unfortunately no. It is a digital tuner.

Quote:
5- Any thing else I should try (pre-amp, rotor or other)?
Make sure you are using good quality cables throughout. I don't mean to say you need to get Monster cables or anything like that, just don't use cheap cables. Also double check any terminations you made yourself. A strand of braid touching the centre wire can cause no end of grief.

As for a pre-amp, how much cable do you have in your system and are you splitting the signal to multiple TVs?

A rotor might also be helpful to aim the antenna towards the tower you want to receive and get a stronger signal, but if you can avoid using one, it makes the system easier to use (important for the Wife Approval Factor).
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post #75 of 723 (permalink) Old 2007-05-12, 12:28 AM
 
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Thank you Kro and Roger1818,

Sorry for the delay (was away for work).

Quote:
Have you try redirecting the attenna? Try to put Mont-Royal in direct line with the back of your antenna. Then turn it toward Mansfield until you see ghost. You will most likely be able to balance analog reception from montreal and HD from mansfield. From where you are you should have very good reception of sherbrook (TQS 30 and Tele Quebec 24).
Okay will try and re-aim my antenna this weekend (this time taking analog reception into account). I'm pretty sure I'm going to loose 22-1,2. I could not get better than 2.5/10 on it and had like 10░ to play with before loosing signal. Using the CM 4228, so start with back to Mont-Royal with that antenna)?

Quote:
Not sure about this one. It is possible that this is your problem. For the few bucks a splitter costs it is worth a try (you can always return it if it doesn't help).
Tried the splitter, I'm under the impression that its a little better. I'm still disapointed in the analog reception (hopefully re-aiming will help).


Quote:
Make sure you are using good quality cables throughout. I don't mean to say you need to get Monster cables or anything like that, just don't use cheap cables. Also double check any terminations you made yourself. A strand of braid touching the centre wire can cause no end of grief.

Using good qual. cables that I buy from Addison, very cheap and good. The RG6 I used is 95% shielded with copper. Terminations are good (clean and crimped).

Quote:
As for a pre-amp, how much cable do you have in your system and are you splitting the signal to multiple TVs?
Okay got around 70' I think. Splitting it for same TV (1 digital (Samsung h260f) 1 analog (integrated NTSC tuner in TV)). Was thinking about spliting it once more for the amp (FM radio). But won't if picture qual will suffer. Does it make a diff if I split but don't use the other "comp" at same time? I split just before the components so added like 2 feet of cable total with splitter.

How much could I expect to pay for an okay pre-amp? If its a couple of bucks might try it out...

Quote:
A rotor might also be helpful to aim the antenna towards the tower you want to receive and get a stronger signal, but if you can avoid using one, it makes the system easier to use (important for the Wife Approval Factor).
You mary my wife's sister? (are they really all the same)?


Thanks once again.
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