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post #1816 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-19, 06:53 PM
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@Norm07 : I moved your post to this existing thread. Please read the following welcome thread thoroughly and post your TVFool results into your next post in this thread.

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post #1817 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-19, 09:51 PM
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Location: Beamsville, East of Mountain Ave
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New OTA: Beamsville

Greetings again.

As of December I have had my OTA up an running in Beamsville, just below the escarpment east of Mountain Ave. I am using a DB8E, Channel Master CM-778 Pre Amp approx 65 feet of RG6 to a CM 4 port distribution amp serving 4 TV's.

When I installed my system I stuck it on my rear deck with the intention of putting it on the roof, in the spring (now). It was directly behind my house about 15 feet off the ground facing east.( my house completely blocked it from the west. I was able to pull in about 29 channels consistently with great quality pictures. It included all the Buffalo channels, pretty well everything off the CN Tower, CFTO, Global and City. I was quite happy, but...I could not get CHCH. I figured it was due to the back of the antenna being about 2 feet away from the house. I had one panel pointing towards Buffalo, about 123 degrees and the other about 90 degrees or West. I was able to get CHCH in if I messed with the antenna but lost most of the other channels.

So fast forward to this week. I installed my antennae on a tripod mount on my roof, at least 35 feet above ground level. I can pretty well see the CN tower. There is no obstructions towards Buffalo except the escarpment way off in the distance. I know from the TV Fool report reception in my area is iffy, Beamsville is in a bit of a depression. I end up using about 65 feet of RG 6. I fire up the system, and to my surprise, reception is worse. I am fighting to get 20 channels, with the antennae pointed in the same direction with the same configuration. I can get CHCH if I adjust the antennae but lose most of the other channels. I also tried disconnecting my Pre Amp thinking my signals may be too strong but it was worse.

So I am looking at getting some advice from some of the Wizards here, who have forgot more about this stuff than I know. These are the few things I have been thinking....

Now that I have the Antenna on the roof, are my signals too strong and are blocking other signals in the same direction?

Am I expecting too much of one antennae in a fixed position to cover approximately 220 degrees of various signals?

It seems when I turn the panels for example 90 degrees to each other the reception gets worse.

So I am looking at options.....what do you think?.... add a rotor? Add a DB2E single panel?

I have saved my TV Fool report and provided a link. I have screen shots but can't seem to insert the photo, U/K why.
If I have done it wrong just give me a shout an I will try and fix it.

Thanks for your help.....Steve

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post #1818 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-19, 11:30 PM
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I have screen shots but can't seem to insert the photo...
See the bolded part at the bottom of the following post.

How to create a photo album for use on the Digital Forum

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post #1819 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-20, 10:52 AM
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post #1820 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-20, 05:59 PM
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Norm try with both panels pointed the same direction. Just the preamp and one tv for testing.Stations that are 2 edge tend not to be reliable.If you could go with a rotor but 5 tvs but 3 directions.The other option is 3 antennas 3 downleads and 3 way a/b switches.2 edge stations will be fine 1 day and gone the next.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #1821 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-20, 06:50 PM
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As I read through the forums it appears that to have both panels straight will give me the best performance. I am going to try tilting the inside edges out slightly and do a check through my 220 degrees and see what difference that makes. So standing behind the antennae the outside would form a convex arc. This is going to give me an idea of how much the antennae will have to rotate. I would rather use a rotor rather than additional antennae. The only issue I can see with the rotor is once you finish watching in one room and go in to the other room, unless you think ahead and reset for the other stations you will be stuck with the previous steering. The additional downleads, antennae and a/b switches don't make sense to me for what little I would gain.
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post #1822 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-20, 07:17 PM
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Norm try entering a higher antenna height in your tv fool and see what is required to get 1 edge or LOS for CHCH and Buffalo.

Attic CM 4248 at Buffalo,M4 at Buffalo.VHF yagis at Toronto .
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post #1823 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-20, 07:49 PM
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To get CHCH to 1 edge I have to go to a 40 foot antennae.....I am close to that now, give or take. To get to LOS on CHCH I stopped at 100 feet. I am pretty sure a section of the escarpment near Grimsby is in the way. As far as Buffalo, 100 feet and I am still at 2 edge.
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post #1824 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-21, 04:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm07 View Post
To get CHCH to 1 edge I have to go to a 40 foot antenna.
You should take a look at the 2 db8 installs on Mountain View near Green Lane.

One is on a tower on the east side just south of Green Lane. And the other
is north of Green Lane on a tri pod by the new power sub station.

Maybe they could share their results.

FYI - I use a db4 and I moved mine up 20 cm and my problem channel (WGRZ)
went from 19 dB to 27 dB.
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post #1825 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-21, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm07 View Post
Now that I have the Antenna on the roof, are my signals too strong and are blocking other signals in the same direction?
That is possible. If you click on pending in your report, you will see CBLT as your strongest signal.
CBLT -42.3 dBm = 6.7 dBmV
max input 7778 = 34 dBmV
6.7 dBmV + 12 dBd ant = 18.7 dBmV; preamp OK
CBLT -42.3 dBm + 12 dBd ant + 16 dB preamp + 8 dB 3414 = -6.3 dBm; tuner overload with multiple strong signals
Quote:
Am I expecting too much of one antennae in a fixed position to cover approximately 220 degrees of various signals?
Yes, you are. For best results, the antenna should be aimed at the transmitter, which means that for best results you would need a rotator or three antennas.

The DB8e can be aimed in two different directions, but it doesn't always work, in spite of what the marketing department says; you just have to try it. The problem is, when the same signals arrive at the combining point, they will interfere with each other if they are not in phase (arrive at the same instant). It has the best chance of working if the two azimuths are 90 degrees apart, about like Hamilton and Toronto. If you don't get all the signals combined that you had when the antennas were separate, then combining doesn't work for your location.


If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
Lord Kelvin, 1883

Last edited by rabbit73; 2017-04-21 at 06:06 PM.
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post #1826 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-21, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm07 View Post
To get CHCH to 1 edge I have to go to a 40 foot antennae.....I am close to that now, give or take. To get to LOS on CHCH I stopped at 100 feet. I am pretty sure a section of the escarpment near Grimsby is in the way.
Yes, the escarpment is in the signal path, but CHCH is listed as a strong signal; you should be able to receive it unless the report is wrong.

I think you should try what rob50312 suggested to see if it is possible to receive CHCH:
Quote:
Norm try with both panels pointed the same direction. Just the preamp and one tv for testing.
If you click on the CHCH callsign in your report, you can see the terrain profile between CHCH and your location, which is at the right end.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...dALLTV%26n%3d8

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 2017-04-21 at 07:47 PM.
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post #1827 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-21, 11:20 PM
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Despredator.....I had a look at those set-ups on Greenlane and Mountainview. Those DB8's have one panel pointed towards Toronto, the other pointed towards Buffalo. I couldn't see any Pre Amps. No one around to talk to but I am going to go back. It will be interesting to see what channels they are getting.

I really don't want to go the three antennae route so, if I use a rotor, would it be an advantage to go to a DB4e? Would this narrow the signal reception and possibly reduce the chance of picking up two strong signals from different directions simultaneously? I intend to try it with the DB8E first. Right now I am going experiment by straightening the two panels and just rotating them and run the tv tuner at the different degrees listed for the various stations. I will also try to replicate the set ups I saw tonight. Only difference is they are much further back from the escarpment and there appears to be LOS to CHCH as this area is further north.

Rabbit....I have no problem receiving CHCH but when I spin the antennae to pick it up I lose too many stations towards Buffalo. Right now I have it set to get everything but CHCH, 11. Chanel's 2,4 and 7 are in and out. These were always good with the antennae lower behind the house.

I am going to get at this ASAP.

Thanks you guys for your help, it's much appreciated.
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post #1828 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-22, 05:57 AM
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Norm,
In your original config you said it was db8 behind the house on the deck low to the ground, you were using a preamp. And you were somewhat happy with it..
with the new configuration on the roof, are you still trying to use the preamp?

If so, try removing the preamp from the system while the antenna is up on the roof.
Make note of results.

DB4E/VHF Yagi rotor FM Bandstop ap-8700 preamp 4way split LG lcd.
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post #1829 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-22, 07:23 AM
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I have tried it, in both locations, on the roof and on the deck. It was worse on the deck, and on the roof, I can't say it made a difference, possibly worse also, without it but I'm not satisfied the antennae was pointed in the best location. I will be doing it again during my trials.
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post #1830 of 1844 (permalink) Old 2017-04-22, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm07 View Post
I would rather use a rotor rather than additional antennae. The only issue I can see with the rotor is once you finish watching in one room and go in to the other room, unless you think ahead and reset for the other stations you will be stuck with the previous steering. The additional downleads, antennae and a/b switches don't make sense to me for what little I would gain.
It seems that you want the magic antenna that will give you good reception from three different directions; it doesn't exist.

If it did exist, CATV systems wouldn't need to spend thousands of dollars on multiple antennas, single channel amplifiers, and combiners.



You need to revise your expectations.
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If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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