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ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA

588K views 2K replies 301 participants last post by  Whitewulf613 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Getting started.
I live just north of the Racetrack/Casino, Quinn Rd

I have lived with rabbit ears for years and want to upgrade to an outside antenna system for 3 TVs picking up as much UHF and VHF signals as possible to start with. By living with cheap rabbit ears running two TVs for years, I know I will be very happy with the improvements I will have going to a proper outside Anenna system for analog and digital signals.

I have been reading posts for 2 days now to get myself started and I think I have information overload and there are so amny things to consider.

I have gone to TVFOOL to find out channels and locations.
I understand I probably do not want a long distance setup as most station are fairly close.
I am not sure of the antennas I need for my area/use.

Does anyone live near me that has been doing this for a while who can help me get started?

Cheers,
 
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#323 ·
beating this horse to death. I had the lower antenna on a bent coat room rack that had a 5 to 10 degree upward cant , within the Aluminum corridor , acting much like a giant ear that faces roughly towards Herbert's corner , too bad I can't try the upward bend on the roof mounted tenna I have .

Oh well I hear that 66 will move to channel 20 next year anyway, so I may try to use a small yagi I have lying around to capture 66 for now as an experiment.

were would present channel 20 move to next year ?
 
#325 · (Edited by Moderator)
Orleans

I'm wondering if anyone is being able to lock on WNYF-LD (HD CBS and DT Fox) during day-time. Presently, I receive it nights only (weather permitting) and sometime late (after 10PM) at night. Right now I'm designing/modeling a high gain antenna (17.2 db gain) specifically for WNYF (at frequency of 497MHZ) to see if it improved reception at night (to get it earlier at night) and may be during the day (when antenna gain is high enough). If someone is able to get it reliably at night (meaning even under bad weather conditions) and during the day, I'll appreciate it if you let me know your antenna's gain (and type), especially at the low UHF frequency range. I need this info. to help me decide on the setup and antenna design: how high the gain I should strive to design the antenna for, etc.
 
#329 ·
I'm wondering if anyone is being able to lock on WNYF-LD (HD CBS and DT Fox) during day-time.
So far I get them all the time since I first found them (I have checked AM, mid-day, and PM...no problem or noticable change in reception). Weather hasn't affected reception either....several weeks and counting now.

I have a CM4228 with the CM pre-amp (the output is split to two tuners). Its on a rotor on my roof at the top of beacon hill area and I have to point a few degrees east of south but otherwise its all good. I don't have the specs but I am sure they are easy to find.
 
#326 ·
Same situation at our place with a CM4228/CM777 on a mast on mounted on my roof in the Baseline & Merivale area. Comes in around 9:30pm each night, and usually starts to break up an hour or two later. Sometimes we receive them in the morning as well around 5:30am.

For comparison, WNPI and WCFE come in consistently for us in all but the worst weather. The 6 local digital channels are good too. In response to some multipath issues with CBC off the back of the antenna, I decided to put a 2nd antenna facing north which I seamlessly combine in MythTV.

I'm looking at options too including the CM4228 hacks, possibly ganging a 2nd CM4228, and some of the very low-noise pre-amps.
 
#328 ·
epa, about your Memorex tuner, and as I was mentioning, backpackster is getting good reception using top components. In your case you may benefit from an upgrade of your Memorex tuner. Tuners are not created equal. checkout post 17 of the OTA FAQ if you haven't already.
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=399617&postcount=17

Some tuners are simply better. They have better sensitivity and will pick up signals which other tuners won't. In your case, you seem to need a set top box tuner, but you should confirm what you need first, and i'm quite sure there is a specific thread for this, but you can go ahead and post what you need and we can funnel you on the right path.
 
#330 ·
#331 ·
Getting free OTA in Ottawa

I use an XG-91 antenna with tripod on flat roof using channel master 7777 preamp running through my Bell 9242 PVR with built in ATSC tuner.

I am presently getting channels 4-1 CBC EN, 9-1 CBC FRE,17-1 CITY TV, 18-1 PBS, 18-2 PBS, 18-3 PBS, 20-1 SUN TV , 27-1 OMNI TV and 66-1 OMNI TV.
There will be alot more being added as we transission to cut off date next august 2011.

I will next spring add second YAGI-7 antenna for local channels 2-7 plus higher pole height and rotor for my present XG-91 antenna to try for 57-1 and other US channels 22-1 and 22-2 CBS and NBC for Super Bowl minus CRTC forced sub sim commuinistic cdn commercials.

I am looking for a dual tuner OTA PVR which seem abundant in AUZ and Europe but not here .

The future's so bright I got to wear shades.
 
#332 ·
I am looking for a dual tuner OTA PVR which seem abundant in AUZ and Europe but not here .
We're a TiVo house so we're enjoying our Series3 HD-XL Dual Tuner DVR. This is my first HD capable DVR and with the quality of HD off antenna, it is stunning. Of course, with TiVo you pay per month for their guide data.

If you check your address on TVFool and reaim your antenna, you may be able to pick up 28.1 Fox-SD and 28.2 CBS-HD from NY.
 
#334 ·
Glad you enjoyed it. Just so you know, CBC usually has the regional games in widescreen SD, but unless you have a very large TV, you probably won't easily notice the difference as it looks about the same as a DVD.
 
#336 ·
I use an HTPC with two tuners (actually 3...one analog which is disconnected though). It took a little work to get the guide data up and running in media center 7 but its worth it. Some of the guide data is still incorrect from time to time as Microsoft broke the guide system for Canada for some bizarre reason.

Not the best thread to discuss it, but there it is.
 
#339 ·
I'm still getting them, but I have noticed that the signal appears weaker than a few weeks ago. I'm starting to see pixelation and some picture break-up on occasion. Not very often, but I never saw that before November....

I received my KitzTech amp back from warranty repair so I may swap it back in to see if that improves the signal.
 
#341 ·
New setup

Hi guys,

Posted pictures of my new setup here, the antenna is now on the roof (look down for my user id):
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=24755&page=41

This was done yesterday, and I am still getting WNYF, from 4pm yesterday up to now, about 2pm.

my TVFool at my new location, for your reference and base of comparison:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=9fbe32262c5a2e

Using a 4228hd unmodified, CM7777 and quad shield cable all the way before it enters the house. A rotor helps fine tuning reception of WNYF, and I intend on keeping the antenna in a single spot aiming at WNYF.

At the current pointing location, without moving the antenna, I also get WNPI, WCFE and all local digital channels. I don't care much about analog channels so I have not watched them yet. All my locals I get from CF from the back of the antenna are strong, as well as HC channels and WCFE and WNPI. The only exception is WNYF which is going to weak but no errors on reception, i could be on the edge of seeing pixelation here this afternoon but i think so far so good.
 
#342 ·
New setup

Good setup flavoie.
I see that WNYF (real channel 18) does not appear on your TVFool analysis. That means TVFool is "fool" in your case. In my case, I get different TVFool analyses, depending on if I provide my full address, my Lat and Long (from google earth) or using the zoom option from TVFool map analysis.

Like you I get WNPI, WCFE and WNYF (WNYF only at night) and all the local channels from my setup in the attic. I finally (yesterday) setup a CM2221HD with CM7777 on the peak of my roof (~35ft). With this setup all my local channels are at 100% Q, which completely masked WNPI and WNYF (cannot get them). Therefore, I slightly attenuated the signal by using a 2-way splitter and a roll of 150ft RG6 coax cable (this is what I have at hand now), and voila was able to pull WNYF and WNPI (but still only at night). My objective is to be able to get WNYF during the daytime, not only at night. Seing that you are able to do that is giving me hope that I may be able to get it during the day. I think I may not need the CM7777 preamp...
 
#343 ·
Good setup flavoie.
I see that WNYF (real channel 18) does not appear on your TVFool analysis. That means TVFool is "fool" in your case.
No, WNYF only appears in "pending" on TVFool because the FCC still has the station in Contruction Permit status. If you go to the interactive map featurem and select "Current and Pending", you'll see WNYF.
But once you generate the "Radar Plot", the pending stations are filtered out.
In my case, I get different TVFool analyses, depending on if I provide my full address, my Lat and Long (from google earth) or using the zoom option from TVFool map analysis.
I find it's always best to use the zoom option. Whether the added precision is accurate is an interesting question.
 
#344 ·
I generated my TVFool by zooming in to my roof at the intended install location and then hitting the Radar plot. It can't be closer to the actual install location. I may not have the exact height though at 35 ft.

My TVFool shows WNYF at -7.8dB NM, which, as tvlurker mentioned, is seen when you hit "Pending applications included".

It was also tvlurker who told me (way back) that my suggested plan of a 4228hd and a cm7777, in my location according to TVFool, pointed directly at WNYF, should work with WNYF and all digital locals working. Thanks tvlurker :) I didn't expect to get WCFE as well considering the narrow beam of a 4228, but i get it just as strong as WNPI.

The way I understand the simple math is... take your TVFool NM figure (-7.9dB) + your antenna gain for this channel (4228hd=13dBi or 11 dBd for channel 18, not sure which one to take here) then - preamp noise margin (2dB for cm7777) and this gets me a positive value of 3.1 or 1.1. You'd want this figure as High as 10 or more to account for attenuation due to weather, leaves, etc.
I don't have any trees in my way. Actually my antenna is the highest thing around, just waiting until lightning hits (yes, it is grounded).
 
#347 ·
... take your TVFool NM figure (-7.9dB) + your antenna gain for this channel (4228hd=13dBi or 11 dBd for channel 18, not sure which one to take here)
dBd. From the TVFool help page at http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=57&Itemid=89
Antenna gain is the only quantity that should ever be ADDed to the NM value. Most antennas will specify their gain in dBd or simply dB, and this is the value that should be used. If an antenna's gain is specified in dBi units, then you need to subtract 2.15 in order to get the equivalent value in dBd units.
I think TVfool shows about -9 dB NM for my location for WNYF, and I have trees in the way, so I don't think I'll be as lucky as you are.
 
#345 ·
skipticum, i think you'll want to hold on to your preamp to get such a deep fringe channel. I pretty much went overboard and optimized every step of the install to get these results, and the cm7777 is one if the key parts of it.

The good news is, you have a way better location than mine ! It should be easier for you to get WNYF.

I have quad shield rg6 cable going to my low-loss surge arrestor/grounding block, then normal rg6 cable inside (which i may replace to quad shield rg6 later) going to a single Hauppauge 950Q usb tuner, one of the best tuners out there.

Aiming makes a difference too. It can be hard turning an antenna just 5 degrees. I can do that with the rotor.

The 4228 is a higher gain antenna than your 4221, and your tuner may or may not be as good than the 950Q.

I've got a Hauppauge HVR-2250 waiting in a box. it should be as good (crossing my fingers here)
 
#348 ·
Great job flavoie...I'm sure the kids will miss the 4228HD off the play structure.

Your trouble finding solid studs with a roof mount is exactly why I'm very hesitant to do that. I'm very leery of leaving my perfectly sound roof with holes in it that aren't securing the tripod.... However, I'm going to have to get my gear outside if I want rock solid reception now that the great summer weather is gone. WNYF and WWNY are still great in the evenings, but since November I've noticed more breakups and picture problems during the day.

Do you think you'll use the rotor much, or is it just to get the best signal by fine tuning?
 
#349 ·
Your kids won't have to wear safety goggles on that play structure anymore with those sharp bowties now gone.

I was nervous about holes in my roof, too. I thought about it a bit during the first few storms. Now I don't worry at all. I'm too busy enjoying my 29 digital and 1 analog channels. Your roof won't leak if you do it right. There's a good thread here about how to protect your roof when mounting through the shingles.

It sounds like Ottawa is starting to get a very decent OTA channel selection if you're willing to make the effort.
 
#350 ·
I'll be using the rotor for fine tuning reception, but first and foremost to make sure I don't need to go back to the roof again just to re-aim. Back when I made the decision, I was planning to use an installer. I didn't want the installer to go back and re-aim when something was wrong. The rotor was worth the expense compared to what an installer would cost each time.
Since then, I found a generous soul a lot less afraid of heights who helped me out and climbed with me. I have not mentioned him so far because I don't know if he wants the enormous praise and recognition.

The Waterproofing thread:
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=104181

I used 3M Super88 tape for the coax connectors only. Some use plumber's grease and other things, check in the thread above.

I will be unscrewing and adding 2x4 wood blocks between trusses, underneat the places where the lag screws did not find go into trusses. Almost mentioned in the thread above.

Then i will reapply what i applied already, one of the roofing tar variants mentioned in the thread above, the Bakor ultimate roof patch from Rona. Other kinds mentioned in the thread above must be just as good.
 
#351 ·
Adjacent channel problem!

In my setup and location it seems that CityTV-DT (real channel 17) is killing the much weaker reception of WNYF-LP (real channel 18). I'm wondering if any one has similar problem to mine, and how to remedy this situation. Currently, I have CM2221HD antenna mounted on the peak of my roof at a 35 foot elevation, a CM7777 preamp and HVR950Q tuner. I get all my local channel at 100% Q, even without the preamp, but I can get WNPI and (at night) WNYF-LP only if I use a two-way splitter and a roll of 50ft coax cable. Do I need attenuator(s)? I couldn't find any in the Source. Anyone knows where to get a variable attenuator, as I think it might help a bit.

The funny thing is that with my attic setup, two home made GH antennas, I can get WNPI-DT all the time and most of the time at nigth get WNYF-LP...
 
#353 ·
flavoie, are you still receiving wnyf during the daytime? I'm also wondering about the SNR readings for wnpi and wnyf. I have an cm2221hd on my roof that can get wnpi (reliably with SNR about 22) and wnyf (not very good with SNR between 14.8 and 16.5). My location is very good for receiving wnyf-lp, but now I'm wondering if I should've bought the cm2228hd instead to get a better lock on wnyf.
 
#354 ·
I wish I knew. Right now my cables outside are cut in an attempt to finish up the job nicely on the side of the house. First attempt didn't work so i left the cables cut instead of terminating them and have to cut them again and reterminate the ends again a few days later. I'll let you know when i'm done and can see a signal again :)
 
#355 ·
Since you have a Hauppauge 950Q as well, we can compare our SNR readings. WNPI gets a 27 out of 27 pretty much all the time. WNYF goes from about 22/24 down to 16.5 worst case in the afternoon. That was up to last Sunday Nov 21st when I cut the cables. Being a higher gain antenna, yes, the 4228hd should help, you'd need to figure out how much gain you would add with a 4228hd. I thought the 4228hd narrow beam would be hard to get WCFE, but it's no problem when I point right at WNYF. All locals are fine too, I get CF from the back of the antenna, most at SNR 24 and better, with CKXT at around 21. All HC channels are at 27/27.
 
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