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ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA

588K views 2K replies 301 participants last post by  Whitewulf613 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Getting started.
I live just north of the Racetrack/Casino, Quinn Rd

I have lived with rabbit ears for years and want to upgrade to an outside antenna system for 3 TVs picking up as much UHF and VHF signals as possible to start with. By living with cheap rabbit ears running two TVs for years, I know I will be very happy with the improvements I will have going to a proper outside Anenna system for analog and digital signals.

I have been reading posts for 2 days now to get myself started and I think I have information overload and there are so amny things to consider.

I have gone to TVFOOL to find out channels and locations.
I understand I probably do not want a long distance setup as most station are fairly close.
I am not sure of the antennas I need for my area/use.

Does anyone live near me that has been doing this for a while who can help me get started?

Cheers,
 
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#1,950 ·
FWIW, CHRO is fine here (Kanata Beaverbrook) at the moment, and I haven't noticed any issues in the last few weeks. My antenna is on the roof, however, so doesn't suffer from the ice attenuation that attic antennas will be suffering right now. Consensus seems to be that snow doesn't affect TV signals very much, but a solid layer of water (as in heavy rain or ice on the roof) will. Of course, ymmv.
 
#1,951 ·
Note that CHRO is also the lowest antenna on the Heberts Corners Tower, so many areas in Ottawa do not have Line of Site to CHRO. Dropping from LOS to single-edge-diffraction propagation path usually drops the signal by about 10dB. As DXer points out, melting water on an ice-encrusted roof can add a lot of attenuation as well, and any marginal channels can suffer.
 
#1,952 · (Edited by Moderator)
Lincoln Fields, Ottawa

I'm currently using a Winegard SS-3000 amplified and the signal split across my home. My semi-detached house has an indoor room that uses raised dormer/Clerestory windows. Although my antenna is indoors, it is fairly close to being attic mounted (there is a minimal wall to the outside, access to window, obstruction to neighbouring units are minimized). Our condo rules prevent me from mounting anything in the attic or on the roof so this is the best place I can think of placing my antenna.

This is my TV Fool report:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=5b944aba7b0267

I tend to get pretty much all of the channels in the green along with a CJOH marked in purple. However, a few of the channels (CJOH, Global, Radio-Canada, City and Canal-V) tend to waver off an on they are fine for days and then get weaker. CJOH just has just the occasional hiccups, while Radio-Canada goes offline but some tuners have better luck then others.

I'm debating switching to a larger outdoor antenna, rigging it on some sort of stand and placing it in the same location. I'm hoping that a better antenna might give me a more stable signal, and if I can get a few extra channels, then all the better.

Is doing this worth it, or are my signal woes mostly due to networks not caring about their OTA signals as much? Seeing as I've got to deal with troublesome VHF and UHF signals would something like an "Antennas Direct DB8" (http://overtheair.saveandreplay.com/Antennas_Direct_DB8.asp) in the vain of what I'm looking for? (The DB4e is labeled as a UHF antenna).

Any recommendations on what I should mount the antenna on? (I'd rather just have it on some sort of stand that isn't attached to structure. The condo rules are dicey with the ceilings here, and I'm not sure if that applies to the dormer's walls as well.)

Thanks.
 
#1,953 ·
I've redone my TVFool report since my old one was outdated.
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=5b94bb55de6200

Using a conservative height of 22 feet for my attic height, I still have CHRO on LOS from house in Orleans. I have a steep roof and usually there aren't much things sticking to it, but with this freezing rain, there probably is some.

The other thing I'm wondering about is GerryB's preamp performance in a cold attic. It's possible i'll go up there and swap for my cm7777 for testing, but i don't know when i'll get around to do that.
 
#1,954 ·
About a year ago I determined that ~$70/month for cable TV was too much and wanted to see how my family and I would fare without so we cancelled. Thanks to this forum among other sources, we have made the transition to watching TV OTA and via streaming and haven’t looked back. So first of all, thanks. We’re actually watching more TV now than before, but that’s a whole other matter – at the minimum we are enjoying the $0/month cable TV bill!

From my house in Orleans, I started with simple rabbit ears that I still had and was amazed at the stunning reception. After some trial, I found the best results while I placed my rabbit ears near a SW-facing window in my top floor bedroom using the existing coax cable wiring in my house to route the signal back to my main floor TV. Secondly, it seemed a powered splitter left by our previous cable installation helped boost the signal a little. With this setup, I was able to comfortably receive CBC, Global, CTV, CHCH, TVO, CBCF, and most of the time, CityTV. A couple more of the French stations could come in well but at the expense of CityTV, so I was left making that trade-off.

A couple weeks ago, I built my own Gray-Hoverman following the guide at diytvantennas.com. It took me - far from a handyman – 1-2 hours and ~$15 to make. Now from the same bedroom window, we comfortably receive all 10 English channels available from the Ottawa area along with CBCF and TQ. I could get the other 2 French channels but it brings down a couple of the other channels closer to fringe levels so I leave it. However, I never feel I am done experimenting.

I just wanted to share how simple it was for me and also cover some of the points I found in finding (so far) my best results. Specifically antenna height, location, and orientation can make a huge difference. Good luck!
 
#1,957 ·
Tropospheric propagation of TV signals in the summer season makes it possible to receive distant (US) TV stations. This type of propagation is uncommon (but does sometimes occur) in the winter season. I think you are just observing this seasonal variation in you maximum reception range.
 
#1,958 ·
2-bay "attic" antenna

I got this little iCan Extreme antenna from Canada Computers for $20

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=164_165&item_id=059250

It's small enough I actually have it standing in behind my TV in a first-floor family room. The reception is better than rabbit-ears for about the same price. The stand is not included (the picture is misleading) so I've mounted it on my own stand I took from a stand-up floor fan.

It works so well I got another for my son. He installed his in his 3rd-floor attic and we both get all the local stations.
 
#1,959 ·
Just a quick update on my experiment from above.

I picked up a C2V to replace my SS-3000. Due to condo regulations, I have to use it indoors (using a raised dormer section to place the antenna.)

With the SS-3000, I can get all regular 14 channels in all tuners in the house, but the signal might waver/glitch depending on the weather. The signal goes from antenna to the SS-3000's small amp, to another amp, and spilt once to the closest tuner then use my old cable wiring to go to basement and split another three ways though the house.

So far with the C2V connected through the same means (using only one amp), I get fewer channels on my tuner and fewer reliable ones. (After rescanning) Going by the HdHomerun tool, it does look like CJOH, CBC, CHCH, City and Global are all coming in stronger (they are from both transmission sites right)? Radio-Canada might be marginally better both most other channels are erratic.

I'd appreciate any suggestions on what to do next. I'll probably spend more time today attempting to find the sweet spot. But I'm almost wondering if I should just revert to the SS-3000.
 
#1,960 ·
Last update to the above.

I spent some positioning the antenna by connecting it directly to my HDHomerun and using the HDHomerun tool to examine the reception. I was able to get most channels reliably (CTS and Omni1 are problematic [signal quality hovers close to 50%. When it dips below 50%, the symbol quality tends to drop]).

CJOH, CHRO, CHCH, Omni.2 tend to hover with a signal quality of 55%-65%. The other channels have 70% to 90% signal quality. CJOH being the only VHF channel, seems to be coming in a little weaker then the SS3000.

Most other tuners in the house can get all the channels except for CTS or OMNI.1. Overall, it seems more reliable at the moment.
 
#1,962 ·
Hi everyone!

I'm kind of overwhelmed with all of the information out there. We recently cut the cord with Rogers and I'm really psyched about getting started with over the air.

We have two TVs, but for the time being I'm only concerned with the one in our basement rec room. Both our TVs are old, so I imagine that we will need a converter box. I'm hoping to get something like this:
http://www.amazon.ca/HomeWorx-HW-15...TF8&colid=1ZG85F967TR2H&coliid=I1Z2C4VQX56EGL

Anyone have any experience with this brand/model?

I guess the next thing is trying to experiment with different models of antennas and where to put them but as a newbie, I have no idea where to start. Is this something that I can figure out pretty easily and inexpensively, or is this something that I should just hire someone to fix up for me (keeping in mind that we are on a bit of an austerity program for the time being)? I have no qualms with setting our antenna up outside.

We live out in Cumberland Village, on top of the hill only a few hundred metres from the Arena on Dunning Road. Between Brickland and Lookout.

This is my TV Fool report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=5b948093f907ad

Advice? Looking forward to any insight you smarties can provide :)

Thanks in advance!
 
#1,963 ·
Congrats on cutting the cord !!!!!

Looking at your tvfool I would say your best bet is a DB4E ant.Its small and light and easy to handle.Maybe a chimney mount if possible.

Get it up on the house as high as possible and being on a hill can only be a plus.

I see you have a channel on vhf low but your close enough IMO that the DB4E will still rec. it.

I wouldnt add an amp since it would overload, your quite close to your locals.

As for the US networks maybe during summer tropo since your so high but the US nets are far off.PBS might be your best.

just my 2 cents
 
#1,964 ·
mrsgreenacres, I tend to agree with SpitsFanSec108 and the DB4e is probably your best option. It has a wide enough beam width that it should receive signals from both towers if aimed between them.

As for CIII, it moved from RF.6 to RF.14 last summer so you don't need to worry about that. You might want a VHF high antenna for CJOH though, but you can try without it if you want.

I disagree with him on the pre-amp though. Your signals are very weak and would most likely benefit from a good quality, low noise amp. The RCA TVPRAMP1R seems to be getting some good reviews and might be worth looking at, though there are lower noise models out there.

The US networks are a long shot for you and I wouldn't put much effort into receiving them.
 
#1,965 ·
mrsgreenacres, I think you should run your tvfool again putting in the correct height above ground where you intend to position your antenna.
That said, without going to an 80 foot tower, I doubt you would get any American stations.
As for local stations, extra height will help you with CTV-Two/CHRO, which is the lowest antenna on the transmitting tower at Herberts Corners.
 
#1,968 · (Edited by Moderator)
Ongoing issues with CBC English (4.1) in Ottawa

I have been having ongoing issues with CBC English (4.1) in Ottawa since December.

CBC has always been my strongest channel but now I get constant drop outs when I tune into 4.1. Does anyone know if there has been problems with this stations broadcast? I look at TVfool for K1K4J9 and note 4.1 and 9.1 do not appear (I am unsure if they ever did). I am getting a solid signal with no drops from others stations that I believe are on the same tower including 6.1, 9.1, 11.1, 13.1, 24.1, 30.1, 34.1, and 40.1.

I assumed the problem was on CBCs end before I went south 3 months ago but I am back now and the problem remains. Is it them or me?
 
#1,969 ·
For CBC stations to show up in TVFool, you generally have to click on "Pending", since most CBC entries in the Industry Canada database are still at "Authorized" instead of "Operating", because it appears the CBC has yet to file the appropriate paperwork to complete the record.

11.1 comes from the Rogers Tower at Herberts Corners, along with 14.1,42.1,43.1,60.1,65.1 The other ones you mentioned come from the Camp Fortune Tower in Gatineau Park.

I also see drop outs from time to time on 4.1.
 
#1,971 · (Edited)
I would find some channels would occasionally drop out at various times in the day. I would get them back by tweaking my antenna's position. I don't know if there is something in my area that might be generating some interference.

I seemed to get around it mostly by setting up a dual antenna system pointing in different directions. I'm not quite following the rules and I'm surprised that it's actually an overall improvement.
 
#1,972 · (Edited by Moderator)
Since January, CBC has been problematic, more so in early evening and early morning hours. The Olympics was painful to watch as the signal dropped frequently.

As my Channel Master is aimed squarely at WNPI, it's largely the backside of my antenna picking up Camp Fortune signals. Was never a problem before as those signals are very strong.

I think the signal issue may have coincided with the move to the top of the broadcast tower and any configuration changes that came with that. Perhaps it is even signal overload. No idea but it is disappointing.

As the weather improves, I'll get up and try repointing the antenna to learn more. However, I don't have a rotor so ultimately I will aim it back to get PBS which requires very precise aiming.
 
#1,973 ·
FWIW, I believe that these drop-out that people describe are due to multi-path reception. With your antenna pointed at WNPI, you could be picking up a reflection of CBC in the higher-gain part of the antenna's polar diagram, and that is of sufficient strength in the tuner to interfere with the direct signal coming from the back of the antenna.

I suffer drop-outs periodically on TVO and less frequently on CBC (very strong signals here). I note that the tuner in my Channel Master DVE copes with this much better than the tuner in my recent-model Sony TV, as do my Hauppauge PC tuners (all run from the same antenna).

If you point your antenna straight at CF, I think you will find the drop-out go away (with the obvious caveat about overloading pre-amps and/or tuners with the increased signal strength). Let us know the outcome of your efforts.
 
#1,974 ·
DXer
I suppose your theory could fit if the changes in positions on the broadcast tower altered the reflection pattern. Can't really test that.

Don't doubt that changing the direction my antenna is aimed would change the results, but I'm hooked on PBS and ultimately will likely have to live with it in the long run.

At least WNPI has finally brought back HD broadcasting (albeit on 18-1, not 18-3)
 
#1,976 ·
DXer
I suppose your theory could fit if the changes in positions on the broadcast tower altered the reflection pattern. Can't really test that.
You could experiment with Channel 24.1/RF24 TVO, which is still on the same antenna CBOT 4.1/RF25 used to be on. It runs about a third less power than CBOT used to when it shared the antenna, but otherwise the antenna's radiation pattern would be the same.
 
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