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ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA

588K views 2K replies 301 participants last post by  Whitewulf613 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Getting started.
I live just north of the Racetrack/Casino, Quinn Rd

I have lived with rabbit ears for years and want to upgrade to an outside antenna system for 3 TVs picking up as much UHF and VHF signals as possible to start with. By living with cheap rabbit ears running two TVs for years, I know I will be very happy with the improvements I will have going to a proper outside Anenna system for analog and digital signals.

I have been reading posts for 2 days now to get myself started and I think I have information overload and there are so amny things to consider.

I have gone to TVFOOL to find out channels and locations.
I understand I probably do not want a long distance setup as most station are fairly close.
I am not sure of the antennas I need for my area/use.

Does anyone live near me that has been doing this for a while who can help me get started?

Cheers,
 
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#753 ·
Well, I got a friend's TV in to test the signal. TV was clean, whereas the feed that came in via EyeTV was not. The computer's not at fault because I've tested another more powerful machine. That leaves the software.

My guess is that there's something about how certain image glitches come through on those particular channels that the software doesn't handle well. Will be digging into the eyeTV forums to see if I can find more info.
 
#754 ·
MikeAbraham,

If you are surrounded by buildings you are in a very unpredictable situation so it is really difficult to tell you what will work and what not. You may or may not sit with a difficult multipath situation where you have a risk of ghosting etc and the strongest signal may not come from the direction of the towers, but being reflected off a building. If I am you I would get a fairy directional antenna and RG6 cable and just start to play around. To get going fast without having to fork out a lot of money I would start by getting a 4 bay knock off from Factorydirect on Merivale, not the best but better than a Youtube coathanger antenna. They sometimes also have some RG6 pre-fit with F- connectors. Pick a strong analog channel above channel 14 (inclusive) from each of the towers and try different locations on your property. Slowly rotate the antenna to see where you are getting the best signal from. Once you have determined the best direction and location for those analog channels try to let the TV scan for the digital channels. Then check the VHF channels. You may have to combine another antenna for the VHF channels. You will learn along the way. That store on Merivale also has some other knock off antennas, but I don't have any experience with how good or bad they are. Forget about PBS. Hope this helps.
 
#755 ·
Mike, here's a simple solution considering PBS is out of reach, forget it it's too weak of a signal to attempt to get it. Install in the attic 2 antennas if you want Global which is at channel 6. Winegard HD8800 for UHF (second choice cm4221hd) -my real second choice for UHF would be the cm4228hd but you'd have to drill out rivets and reassemble it in the attic with extra hardware because it typically doesn't fit an attic trap. Then a vip302sr for VHF as the 2nd antenna. Merge these 2 antennas using a cm7777 preamp.

There's something called a universal swivel base mount which you put on a truss in the top of your attic and then hang a mast on it vertically. When you have a vertical mast hanging from the top it's easy to mount your antenna(s) on it. Keep the UHF antenna on top and the VHF on the bottom if using the same mast.
 
#758 ·
Thanks Flavoie.....I guess the first thing I have to ask is why is PBS out of reach? Is it due to my location or some other factor based on my situation? Did you have a look at my TV fool report?

I think prior to sussing out any antennae possibilities I should first determine what channels I can get.

So if you could let me know why PBS is out and what channels you believe I would get. I guess essentially what I'm trying to do is narrow down the options based on "bang for the buck"....if I can get 3-4 stations with just an indoor antenna and only a couple more with outdoor or attic I might just stick with indoor...all depends on the potential channels.

Much thanks for your help !
MA
 
#759 ·
Thanks also Ramkat - I see you also say PBS is a no-go. hmmmmm. You also mention a 2-antenna setup (one for the VHF)

Which channels are broadcasting VHF...I'm a bit confused about CBC digital...is it 4 (VHF) or 25 UHF? If it is UHF then it would appear to me that the only VHF channel I might be interested in is Global (not sure what CHCH is), and maybe CTV (is 13 able to be picked up on UHF antenna)?

Thanks again

MA
 
#760 ·
Mike, wnpi PBS is worse than -10db noise margin (NM) in your tvfool. At that point you cannot get the channel reliably from the roof with a good preamp.

Post transition your vhfs are global,src,ctv at 6,9,13.
You'll want a VHF antenna if you want global because UHF might be ok at channel 13 but not at all for ch 6.
 
#762 ·
update

Hello Folks,

I finally got a preamp for my Attic set-up. DB8 and 7778 preamp. Was getting a very weak WPBS signal with 16.1(2%).

I am still not getting 28.1/28.2 early enough in the evening, think I locked in around 9ish. WCFE and WNPI were coming in strong. Is there anythign else I can do besides putting it on the roof that might help me?

Will a Winegard 8800 make that much of a difference? It'll be a tough sell to my wife unless I can sell my DB8.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=03d947f368e74a
 
#763 ·
I think putting the DB8 on the roof instead of the attic will make more of a difference than putting an HD8800 in the attic. Swapping antennas may gain you a dB or two, but giving the antenna "fresh air" could improve your margins by 5-10 dB. (As high as 20, but since you're getting these stations already, I suspect your attenuation due to roofing materials is in the 5-10 range.)
 
#765 ·
There are other Antenna comparison sites on the web that give different comparisons of the HD8800 vs the 4228HD and the DB8. It is not clear that the 8800 is necessarily the winner, even for channel 18. And the difference on channel 18 may only be 2 or 3 dB, and the winner (according to antennahacks.com) is actually the 4228HD , not the 8800.

By the time you get to channel 20, the differences are less pronounced (DB8 is still on the bottom, but not by much).
 
#766 ·
The differences between the DB-8, the 8800, the U8000, and the CM4228HD are few, so unless you face a very specific situation in which one of them squeezes out more performance (as mentioned by falvoie and tvlurker) you should be fine with any of them. Get your antenna out of the attic if at all possible!
 
#771 · (Edited)
Added Rotator & Amplifier

Hi Guys,

Well I finally got my rotator installed a Channel Master 9521A and a CM-7777 preamplifier. Using a CM4228hd antenna approximately 24 ft high in Bourget Ontario. With a Sony Bravia tv.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=03d976c305399d

Here are my final results which I'm very happy to be receiving:p

Canadian Channels:
4
4.1
8
9
9.1
11
13
14
17.1
20.1
24
27.1
30
32
34
39
40
43
60
65

For some strange reason I still don't get 66.1 which isn't a big deal. Maybe it's being blocked by a big Hydro tower that's in that direction.

US Channels always:
18.1
18.2
18.3
57.1
57.2
57.3

US Channels evening only:
28.1
28.2

I also got these channels one night tropo maybe? As they're not on my tv fool results. I was aiming at WWNY-DT that evening

50.1 WWTI-HD ABC
50.2 WWTI-DT2

Thanks Guys for all your help.
Mary-Jane
 
#772 ·
Mary Jane, Glad you got it working. Dont worry about 66.1 for now. I believe that it has something to do with the HD version of the 4228 antenna that has been optimized for channels 52 and below. All channels will evenually move to 52 and below.

There are some things that you could look at to improve 28.1/2. One is to perform the simple mods on the 4228HD that is discussed in the antenna section.

the second is to do what this guy did

http://72.9.159.100/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1328965


And the third would be to play with tilting the antenna slighly back by in the range of 3 to 10 degrees. Normally this is not advisable on an antenna with a rotator because it could affect the nearby stations - but you could try and check the nearby stations (if it improves 28.1)
 
#773 ·
Channel 66.1 at Bourget

Mary Jane,

Your setup's lack of picking 66.1 is bugging me. You say that you are receiving 65. How clear is 65? Are there any ghost images? If there are some Ghost images then try and move the antenna to the left or right to see if that improves signal quality (now that you have a rotator that you could do it from the coach - no more up and down the ladder :D) If that improves the image on 65 then do another scan for 66.1. It may be that the signal signal is strong enough but of a low quality due to multipath problems. Let me know if that worked for you
 
#774 ·
Still no go on 66.1

Hi RamKat,

Still no go on channel 66.1.

It's not a big deal to me since it's the same as channel 14. It's probably not going to be a channel I would be watching anyway.

But Thanks for the advice of trying to get it better tried it in different directions but no success. By the way I get 65 so clearly that it almost looks like 17.1 without the HD.

When I put my tv to 66 to try and pull in 66.1 there is some ghosting noise happening but I Can't pull it in.

Will keep trying in case......

The Good News is I pointed my antenna this morning towards WWNY-DT. I started getting 7.1 7.2 but they weren't clear so I adjusted my antenna until they became clear at 136'

Go figure I now get 28.1 and 28.2 full time :) at 136' is it tropo? Or a possibility?
I guess I'll eventually find out.

Thanks for your Help
Mary-Jane
 
#775 ·
Hi Maryjane, on my CM rotor, with time the dial does not always equal the real direction. There's an offset between where the antenna is pointing and what the box displays. I didn't put much work into it, but that may be what you have now. All I cared about what the fine tuning in one direction so I left it there after I optimized my WNYF position.

I suggest you optimize for WNYF at 28.1/2 for best reception, then figure this should be the South Colton tower for wnpi/wnyf. Then move 62 degrees up and try channel 66.1 again...
 
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