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ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA

588K views 2K replies 301 participants last post by  Whitewulf613 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Getting started.
I live just north of the Racetrack/Casino, Quinn Rd

I have lived with rabbit ears for years and want to upgrade to an outside antenna system for 3 TVs picking up as much UHF and VHF signals as possible to start with. By living with cheap rabbit ears running two TVs for years, I know I will be very happy with the improvements I will have going to a proper outside Anenna system for analog and digital signals.

I have been reading posts for 2 days now to get myself started and I think I have information overload and there are so amny things to consider.

I have gone to TVFOOL to find out channels and locations.
I understand I probably do not want a long distance setup as most station are fairly close.
I am not sure of the antennas I need for my area/use.

Does anyone live near me that has been doing this for a while who can help me get started?

Cheers,
 
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#643 ·
Channel 45 is WROC-8 out of Rochester. If you have a clear enough line of sight toward the southwest like I do and you're up high enough, you will probably see this channel on average a few nights a week over the summer. It tends to come in with the Watertown channels but is a bit different. Usually after 10 pm it is strongest, after a clear day and not too windy. Any morning around 5 - 7 AM when it is sunny/hazy and weak jetstream the channel should be very strong.
 
#647 ·
so i was able to pull in a bit of that channel 45 thats been elluding me
and its another Omni channel.
i dont know if its just my tv thats putting a omni on that channel or if theres really a omni channel 45. it was really snowy but i could make out that it was the same programing as 66.5
 
#648 ·
There is no OMNI programming on analog channel 45.
Since you are close to Camp Fortune, and I seem to recall that you are using a preamp, 45 would be an intermod product between channel 9 from Camp Fortune and Channel 14 from Herberts Corners. (The difference between channels 14 and 45 is 186 MHz, which is the bottom of channel 9.)
 
#650 ·
Ottawa South: Bidirectional SBGH?

Hi All,

I'm knew to this forum, and contrary to what my handle might suggest, I'm not familiar with antenna theory. But I'm planning on building a SBGH and I'm wondering if anybody has ever tried building one with two driven elements, one on each side of the reflector array.

My problem is that here in Ottawa south, I live smack dab between two major broadcast towers in my area, one to the north-west, and one to the south-south-east. But my real goal is to pick up PBS stations 23 or 38.

I'm wondering, if I direct the antenna south, will the reflectors attenuate the signals coming from the norther tower? And so if I add another driven element to the other side of the reflector array, I'll have an awesome bidirectional antenna. Yes? No? Overkill? Any idea's would be much appreciated.

here's my dilemma:

 
#651 · (Edited)
Hello, your situation is a common one. :) Please read through this thread for a ton of info on how others have fared and what steps they've taken to get the same stations. What is your neighbourhood's name, or your nearest major intersection?

The best way to make a GH bidirectional is to build it in reflectorless form. You will lose some gain, so it may or may not be able to get one or both of the PBS stations. Also be aware of the different bands (VHF-LO, VHF-HI, UHF) that the Ottawa stations will be on after the DTV transition so that you build the correct antenna(s): http://www.user.dccnet.com/jonleblanc/Canada_TV_Stations/

Definitely pose your question about using "two driven elements, one on each side of the reflector " in the Antenna R&D Forum for a solid explanation of why that doesn't work well, but please avoid discussing your local reception in there - we'll keep discussing that here in this thread for your area.
 
#652 ·
It's better if the OP would post a link to the TVFool plot. so we could see the pending trasnmitters.

In any case, for an outdoor antenna pointing towards Herberts Corners and South Colton, I would recommend an antenna with a reflector. The reflector will only attenuate the Camp Fortune signals by 10 to 30 dB, which would still make all the UHF signals receivable.
If you still have an issue with the VHF signals, I would add a separate VHF antenna for 6, 9 amd 13, which are all from Camp Fortune.

At an NM ofr -11dB, WNPI will be barely receivable, and you'll need all the help you can get, so DO NOT omit the reflectors. WNPI on channel 23 will already be suffering from adjacent channel interference form CHCH at Herberts Corners -- do not add the adjacent channel interference from CICO-DT-24 on channel 24 to your PBS reception woes.

Be careful with preamps, too, as 23 can be susceptible to intermod interference from CITY on 17, and CJMT on 20, both broadcasting from Herberts Corners.

Luckily, for you both WCFE and WNPI are to the east of Herberts Corners for you, so I would aim the antenna at WCFE, to get a dB or two attenuation of the local signals from Herberts Corners.
 
#653 ·
I agree with tvlurker and providing a link to TVfool results is much more helpful. There are so many things you can do with the link that you can't do with an image.

In my opinion, with a lot of work Maxwells_Eqns may be able to receive one of the PBS stations but reception may not be reliable. I can't help but wonder if a high gain Yagi would be a better option to minimize interference from locals.
 
#656 ·
roger1818 said

I can't help but wonder if a high gain Yagi would be a better option to minimize interference from locals.
Thanks for the suggestion, all. I'm not sure what "minimize interference from locals" means. Would the Yagi be exclusively for the PBS stations? So if I use a Yagi to get the PBS stations, would I also then need to build a reflector-less GH for the nearer broadcast antennas (i.e. Camp Fortune and Greely)?
 
#658 ·
WNPI Channel #23 and Antenna Chart

I'm slowly inching my way to improving my chances with WNPI. Cabling is better. Still probably need an FM trap for my Kitz.

I'm also thinking of changing my antenna and at a loss which way to go. I already have the CM 4221HD with which I occasionally lock down WNPI. The Antenna Chart 7.2 has dropped the CM4228HD.

Many here seem to feel that the Winegard HD8800 is best for WNPI (I suspect based on Ken Nist's model results). However, this other location http://www.antennahacks.com/Comparisons/CM4228_vs_DB8_vs_HD8800.htm would suggest strongly against the Winegard and favour the CM4228HD.

Anyone actually use both or care to comment?
 
#659 ·
Vanier, ON: Silver Sensor the way to go?

Hi,

I just discovered this forum - I hope I am in the right spot to ask my question!

I live in Ottawa (Vanier) and I just bought a new HD TV. I am considering the OTA route and I need some expert advice on the best way to proceed...

Here's the TV signal analysis report I got from TV Fool: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=574756d194ddc0

Given this info, am I likely to get good results with an indoor antenna (the only way to go in my situation) such as the Zenith Silver Sensor (or clones from Terk or Philips)?

Any tips or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!
 
#660 ·
I've seen both sites. For channel 23, you do have that gain drop, from the modeled antenna. I personnally prefer the models a la Nist. But what that really means, to me, is if you got a cm4228hd (like me) and sometime later you find the HD-8800 model would have been a bit better at 18 & 23, you won't lose much sleep about it when you see these experimental results between 2 sample antennas. If allowed a larger sample, who knows what those experimentals results would be.
 
#662 ·
I'm holding off on any VHF specific antenna purchase until the switch-over at the end of August. The 4221HD pulls in enough VHF for my purposes (save for Global which my kids would like for Wipeout).

My sole reason for another antenna is to get WNPI or WCFE which lately seems a bit stronger but still no lock.

As to losing sleep, I'll stop that when I get a reliable lock like you have.;)
 
#663 ·
amac, my philosophy about the Antenna Chart is that it continues to prove correct for a wide majority of reported cases across Canada, but we've found over the years that there are some particular areas in which the unique behaviour of some of the antennas may actually be better/worse. In the case of the National Capital Region, the members have learned and reported some very valuable things about which brand and model to use.

I'm great with that, and asking here for clarification is the best thing to have done. :)
 
#665 ·
PourquoiPasRémi, looking at your TVFool results, I would say you have a good shot at receiving all the locals with an indoor antenna. The big caveat to this is, what are the local factors that will affect your reception (what direction you are facing, what is the building made of, what floor are you on, are there other buildings/trees/etc in the way)?

One good way to use TVFool to help you predict some of these issues is to use the "maps" tool, switch to satellite view, zoom in and drag the marker to where the antenna will be located in your building and turn on "Show lines pointing to each transmitter." The two dark green lines point to the two local towers. You can see if they if they travel through anything nearby that could cause you problems.

If you could describe the results of this analysis, we can help you choose the best antenna for your situation.

Warning, you may not want to post this image if you are concerned about privacy as (unlike the radar plot) it could give away your address.
 
#666 ·
PourquoiPasRémi, you should also consider those 2 "indoor" antennas which are larger but made for UHF:
Antennas Direct CS2
Channel Master 4220hd (which also has a version coming with a mount, the 4220mhd)
With those 2 antennas, you'd likely get better results than a Silver sensor, but you would need to combine it with rabbit ears of another VHF antenna to get VHF channels, with a special, inexpensive splitter/combiner called a UVSJ. And you'd have to decide if you can find a location that reduces the eyesore.

From your username, I am thinking that come September 2011 you might want to still get SRC which will move from 22(uhf) to 9(vhf), along with Global & CTV which are currently and will stay at channels 6 & 13. The VHF range you would then care about...
 
#667 ·
I agree that typically the CS2 and the 4220HD are the best UHF antennas for indoor use. Since the locals are about 130 degrees apart for PourquoiPasRémi, he may want to remove the reflector from those antennas so he can receive signals off both the front and the back of the antenna equally. Local factors will determine if this is best for him so I was holding off making specific recommends.
 
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