Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA

588K views 2K replies 301 participants last post by  Whitewulf613 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Getting started.
I live just north of the Racetrack/Casino, Quinn Rd

I have lived with rabbit ears for years and want to upgrade to an outside antenna system for 3 TVs picking up as much UHF and VHF signals as possible to start with. By living with cheap rabbit ears running two TVs for years, I know I will be very happy with the improvements I will have going to a proper outside Anenna system for analog and digital signals.

I have been reading posts for 2 days now to get myself started and I think I have information overload and there are so amny things to consider.

I have gone to TVFOOL to find out channels and locations.
I understand I probably do not want a long distance setup as most station are fairly close.
I am not sure of the antennas I need for my area/use.

Does anyone live near me that has been doing this for a while who can help me get started?

Cheers,
 
See less See more
#528 ·
Thanks, here's my report:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=8d178c93c4f885

I should mention that when I first bought this same antenna (Monoprice DA-8000), about two years ago, using my roommates old 19" Sharp TV, I was able to get 66.1 in Digital depending where I positioned the antenna - now I can't even get a signal to show up with my new LG.

If I tune in to 17.1, I can see a low signal (approx 25%) but obviously not enough to lock in the station. I do get all the HC channels in Analog, but they're equally as unwatchable as the analog channels from CF. (If the transition wasn't in a few months i'd try a new antenna simply to improve analog reception, but it's not worth investing in since everything's getting shut off on August 31st anyways)
 
#529 ·
Antenna and Preamp question in Bayshore, Ottawa

Hi:
I've been reading this forum for the last two weeks and finally made up my mind to build Antennas. I analyzed my TV fool Below:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=8d17b130d01d8c

Looking at my TV fool, it appears to me I need two antennas one pointed to southeast and one to the north. I've few question:

1. Do I need to use preamp? If yes, which one? CM7777? or CM7778?
2. Considering my location, which antenna will be best for me?

I do not have a TV, but I have an ATSC tuner in my PC with a huge Monitor (32"). In the past I've tried Zenith indoor antenna from tigerdirect but failed receive many digital channels. I only got 2 digital channels and few analogs. I called tigerdirect and they suggested the indoor antenna is not working due to concrete walls. I can try indoor without amplifier or outdoor antennas. I tried Coat hanger antennas last year and did not see much improvement in digital channels. I probably need to get a proper software as well.

I tried Windows Media centre and hauppauge. Is there any better software?

I'm going to Metal supermarket this weekend and will buy the hardware for the antenna. I need to decide on antenna before that.

Thanks
 
#530 ·
Since your LG tuner looks not that good I will not only recommend a good antenna, but you should consider adding a preamp as well. This will make your tuner sensibility not as important and let the preamp do the hard work.
You can decide what you try first, antenna, preamp or both.

Depending on how much eyesore you can afford indoors, you can definitely improve from your monoprice antenna, starting from a Zenith Silver Sensor (or clone) to a larger DB2 or Channel Master 4220 or 4221, then add a preamp like a channel master 7777 or 7778. The 7777 does have separate VHF and UHF inputs which could be handy if you wish to combine rabbit ears for VHF to that new UHF antenna.

Look at the antenna decision chart to help you. Have a look here: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=97121
 
#531 ·
I went to The Source today and picked up a Trek HDTVa - which appears to be a Silver Sensor clone... with my window open, and the antenna facing due south, I can pick up City and the two Omni's (signal strength around 50%, but enough for a solid picture)... with the Window closed, I get 27, with picture break ups on 17 and nothing on 66...

Now the Trek comes with an in-line amp, but i'm pretty sure it's a piece of junk... so my options at this point are to keep the antenna and keep the window open when I want to watch TV, keep the Trek but replace the included amp with a better pre-amp, or return the antenna and go back to my old one/buy a different one.

Any suggestions (in particular on my second option?)
 
#534 ·
Looking for antenna advice/help in Alta Vista area of Ottawa

Hello,

I am new to the forum and looking for some antenna help.

I am making the move to HDTV due to the upcoming switch in August.

Currently, we have a small 20-year old TV with an indoor Nexttech antenna (from The Source) that picks up most standard definition channels adequately enough for us.

I now have a new digital flatscreen TV that I will be wall mounting and have to figure out how best to hook up an antenna. The old one is not wall mountable and only picks up the CBC digital channel (4.1). Unfortunately, the location of the TV is on an inner wall (facing north) and not near a window.

I am located in the Alta Vista neighbourhood. I have tried a bunch of indoor antennas from "The Source" (e.g. TERK flat omni-directional, amplified or not) and FutureShop (e.g. RCA, flat, amplified or not) and have been able to get many more digital channels than the CBC channel from inside the house.
To make matters more "interesting", I am in an older house that is not wired for cable at all and don't know where I should start drilling holes, etc.

Here is what TV fools tells me (no antenna height entered):

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d8d1743e7061c02[/url]

So what I really need is some help with antenna selection. I have looked at the decision chart for OTA Antennas in Canada, but haven't been able to find a local source for the recommended indoor antennas (i.e. Zenith Silver Sensor or Winegard Sharp Shooter). Has anyone tried these here in Ottawa? Where can you buy them?

I would like to get as many channels as reasonably possible (i.e more than one would be nice :) ).

My other questions are the following:

1. Will I have to put an antenna in the attic or outside if I want more channels or is there a really good indoor antenna out there somewhere?
2. How difficult is it to put something in the attic given that I have a low slope roof?
3. If I go with an outdoor antenna, where should the cable run?
4. Can anyone living in this neighbourhood of Ottawa recommend an antenna that will give us good coverage? One of the sales people at "The Source" mentioned that this area of Ottawa was known for not having good indoor reception compared to other areas (e.g. St. Laurent), but I don't know how true this is.
5. Will I have to buy an amplified antenna (at the moment I only have one TV set)?
6. Can somebody recommend some good retailers?

Thanks very much for any assistance that you are able to provide.
 
#536 ·
Rabbi Tears:

Welcome to the forum!

rabbitears TV FOOL: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id=8d1743e7061c02

Your tears will be a-flowin' when you waste big money on a "good" indoor antenna.

I suggest that even though it takes a bit of time and effort, you'll never regret installing a decent outdoor antenna. You'll probably discover that an indoor antenna will cost more than an outdoor antenna and will not give you as good results.

If you want to have a chance to get PBS, you'll need a roof-mounted (outdoor) Channel Master 4228hd with a pre-amp (probably Channel Master 7778) -- but local thread readers will correct me if there is a better solution than this.

If you want to take a shot at getting Channel 7 (with Fox and CBS) you might want to add a good VHF-high antenna. Maybe the Winegard YA 17-13.

If you decide to get the Winegard VHF High antenna, then you could consider an Antennas Direct DB8 antenna instead of the Channel Master 4228hd. The DB8 can be used for UHF.

Local thread readers will chime in if they think my suggestion will not work for Global HD come August.

There are a few shops in Ottawa who will either have these antennas or order them in for you. See the "where to buy" threads.
 
#537 ·
Rabbitears has a better chance at the WWNY relay on channel 18 (WNYF-LD 28.1/28.2) than getting channel 7 directly, so I wouldn't bother with a channel 7 antenna.

Unless you are blocked by nearby buildings, I'm not sure why you're not getting more local stations. How is your analog reception?
 
#538 ·
In light of TVLurker's idea, I'd go with an outdoor-mounted CM4228hd + 7778 pre-amp mounted on roof outdoors. 4228hds should be relatively easy to get in Ottawa.
 
#539 ·
For an outdoor antenna in Ottawa...
-if you have a shot at WNYF in TVFool (-10 NM or higher) and willing to get Global using a VHF antenna, the UHF antenna with the very best gain on channel 18(28.1) would be:
Winegard HD8800

but this antenna is not very good at VHF, so you'd need to not care about VHF or plan to use a separate VHF antenna and combine it with the 8800. If I had to do it again, I'd use an HD8800 with my VHF antenna.


-if you want to try a single antenna for everything first (which is what i tried first and gets very good results too):
cm4228hd

if both UHF and VHF antennas are around the same area, a cm7777 preamp is very good to combine them at the same time as amping.
 
#541 ·
-if you want to try a single antenna for everything first (which is what i tried first and gets very good results too):
cm4228hd
The problem is the CM-4228HD does not receive VHF-LO very well, so a separate antenna will be needed for Global anyway, so I would lean towards the HD-8800 and get a separate antenna for VHF.
 
#540 ·
heemu, you don't need 2 antennas. If you keep one antenna pointed south east you will get the channels coming from the north as well. The analogs will look very distorted, but the digital channels will be perfect. And in august when they all become digital channels i think they will all be perfect.

I suggest a preamp if you intend of getting the PBS channels from the US, or generally want the best margin in case of rain/bad weather.

I use Windows Media centre myself and you should direct your questions about software under this forum: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=31

If you wish to make antennas, have a look at the antenna R&D forum
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=186
 
#544 ·
My attic mounted vip302sr, preamped after about 20 feet of cable between it and the cm7777 on my roof, gets Global OK.

I wonder if anybody here tried to get Global on channel 6 with rabbit ears ? I never got it working myself, so roger is definitely on to something. You really have to wonder why they don't do something about it if nobody in Ottawa will be able to actually receive it !
 
#545 ·
My attic mounted vip302sr, preamped after about 20 feet of cable between it and the cm7777 on my roof, gets Global OK.
First of all don't forget your VIP-302SR has 4dBd gain on VHF-LO so it has about 4dB more gain than rabbit ears.

Secondly, this is the analog broadcast. IMHO, the post transition DTV broadcast will be much more difficult to receive as the simulations (including TVFool) are overly optimistic regarding VHF-LO.
 
#546 ·
which is why I ask
I wonder if anybody here tried to get Global on channel 6 with rabbit ears ? I never got it working myself, so roger is definitely on to something. You really have to wonder why they don't do something about it if nobody in Ottawa will be able to actually receive it !
 
#547 ·
If Rabbitears in Alta Vista has a pre-amped 4228hd outside on his roof facing the USA, don't you think it would still be good enough to pull in Global off the back?
 
#549 ·
Not a chance! The CM-4228HD has less than -26dBd gain on channel 6 (off the bottom of the chart) on the front.

So lets do some math.

54.4 dB NM
-20dB (at least) correction for over estimated VHF-LO
-26dB (at least) gain on channel 6
-10dB (?) Front to back ratio
-------
-1.4 dB usable signal BEST CASE (more likely to be -10 or -20 dB)
 
#548 ·
Rabbit ears for the time being

Just FYI...Bought a 'real' antenna and pre-amp for hubby at xmas but we are waiting for spring (yes I know it is already spring...we are slow pokes) to mount it, in the meantime we continue to get most of the ota stations with our rabbit ears (OMEGA UHF/VHF/FM indoor amplifier antenna - model OVA-676A)...sound fancy but is really just a set of rabbit ears with a small built-in amp. We definately get Global.
 
#550 · (Edited by Moderator)
Which GH to build for this area?

Thanks to Flavoe for taking time to address some of my concerms:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...8d17b130d01d8c

I'm totally a newbie in this area and have been reading the antenna building threads for a couple of weeks without any clue which antenna to build. I'm more inclined to build a GH*n3 models and spent quite a lot of time in Nikiml's website. Can anyone please tell me which model to pick?

GH4n3
GH6n3
GH8n3
GH10n3?

Also, which preamp to pick? CM7777 or CM7778? I'll use only one TV and the distance between my Balcony antenna and TV would require 30/40 feet cable.

Thanks
 
#553 ·
Also, which preamp to pick? CM7777 or CM7778? I'll use only one TV and the distance between my Balcony antenna and TV would require 30/40 feet cable.
Assuming you have a good tuner, conventional wisdom says a pre-amp is not beneficial if you have less that 50' of cable and don't have any splits. There are some exceptions for poor tuners, but that is the rule of thumb.
 
#552 ·
No Global using a CM4228hd. This is good to know.

My amped CM4228hd at my cottage in Kazabazua does not get Global off the front. But I never thought it would. Still thinking about what to do about that next year.

Maybe Flavoie's idea VHF Hi & Low antenna + Winegard 8-bay.
 
#554 ·
My amped CM4228hd at my cottage in Kazabazua does not get Global off the front. But I never thought it would. Still thinking about what to do about that next year.
Not sure of the elevation at your cottage, but the big problem you will likely have with Global is line of sight since it is the lowest transmitter on the tower. All the other issues with VHF-LO only compound the problem.
 
#556 ·
Let's not forget we get fringe signals and every bit of attenuation from the cable + possible splitters + the tuner itself is offset by preamp gain minus its noise figure. In my case, it helped a lot when testing the PBSes and WNYF.
roger what are your results for those channels ?
 
#559 ·
With and without splitting
1600\1800: split between those 2 (used to be my main 2 tuners)
950q: on it's own non splitted (other PC)

I have an A/B switch between those 2 setups.
Now a 2250 has replaced the 1600/1800 and I am sad to say it gives me worse results than the 1600/1800 I had.
 
#560 ·
"Not sure of the elevation at your cottage, but the big problem you will likely have with Global is line of sight since it is the lowest transmitter on the tower. All the other issues with VHF-LO only compound the problem."

Lots of issues at the cottage including achieving antenna height. Compound that with trees and the Gatineau Hills and it's going to take a lot of effort to get Global in Aug 2011.

I put up the 4228hd + 7777 last summer. We got CBOT and CBOFT in digital. It could sense SunTV but never saw anything. I think that might have been all of the digitals at the time. Nothing from Herbert's Corners. Strangely, we got a strong CTV from Cornwall all summer. I'll consider our antenna a success if I can get all of Camp Fortune in digital -- Global being the Holy Grail.

I have asked for people's opinions in the Hull - Gatineau OTA thread but no one has answered.
 
#561 ·
I think another way to look at it is i just happen to use 3 tuners with worse first stage amp noise figures than my cm7777 and kt200. In this case inserting a preamp anywhere before the tuner would benefit me. This is what I saw every time provided I attenuated properly at the tuner input if needed (just for the 2250). Actually the 2250 is one I did not test with and without preamp.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top