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Global's Transition PSIP Issues Explained - see Post #24

48K views 155 replies 50 participants last post by  OTA-London 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I am currently seeing what I can only describe as digital "snow" on CICT-DT (Global) Calgary. It looks like analog snow but everything is on a green background. Is it just me?
BTW, Global on Channel 2 analog is just fine.

UPDATE: The station (on all channels) was briefly frozen on an image from an earlier commercial.
No sound on Channel 41. But on Channel 2 and on Shaw Cable 7 (both analog) the sound was as per the usual programming.

UPDATE 2: Everything back to normal, except that the PSIP information for Channel 41 is different. It now says CICT-HD (was CICT-DT) and strangely the signal level seems a little better than before.
 
#3 ·
Global 41.2 480i Calgary

van der Decken - yes - I can confirm that I am also receiving Channel 41.2 480i, stereo - sub-channel. I have contacted Global TV here in Calgary as I hadn't thought that sub-channels were generally accepted in Major Market areas of the country. The same program as the 2.1 channel was being radiated at that moment "100 Huntley Street". Odd?? Wot? :confused:
 
#4 · (Edited)
CICT - Channel 41. (Apparent Sub-Channel 41.2)?

downbeat - Everything isn't quite normal - I am receiving a good signal on Sub-Channel 41.2 the same programming as 2.1 except in SD 480i, stereo.
I contacted Global but have received no explanation as to the new sub-channel yet. There may be a "malfunction at the junction" as happened earlier in the morning program - turned out to be a computer glitch.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the new Omni DTV transmitter installation that must by now be under way in readiness for next month??
 
#5 ·
CICT

downbeat: I did not know that. Thanks for the clarification.
Bill: I bet it's not a mistake at all. It can't have anything to do with OMNI going in. Remember, all the Global TV PSIP generators are sitting in the Calgary racks.
I'll speculate that they may have upgraded Calgary's PSIP generator or moved it around to add more PSIP gen's for the rest of the transmitters in Canada.
If they have a sub, it would be easier to convert the translators back to analog.
Demod in >> 41.2 >> modulated to channel 2 >> into translator >> back out as an analog channel in 4x3.
 
#6 ·
From Airdrie I can't tune 2.2 on my HTPC but the output of my scan sees that it exists but isn't running.
Code:
tune to: 8VSB     f=515000 kHz 
(time: 02:50) WARNING: unhandled stream_type: 6
service is running. Channel number: 9:1. Name: 'Calgary'
tune to: 8VSB     f=563000 kHz 
(time: 02:51) service is running. Channel number: 4:1. Name: 'CFCN DT  240 5761'
tune to: 8VSB     f=635000 kHz 
(time: 02:52) service is running. Channel number: 2:1. Name: 'CICT-HD'
service is not running, pseudo program_number. Channel number: 2:2. Name: 'CICT-SD'
tune to: 8VSB     f=683000 kHz 
(time: 02:53) service is running. Channel number: 5:1. Name: 'Citytv CALGARY'
dumping lists (5 services)
Calgary;(null):515000:M10:A:0:1713:1716=eng,1717=eng;1716,1717:0:0:11:0:0:0
CFCN DT  240 5761;(null):563000:M10:A:0:49:51=eng,52=eng;51,52:0:0:1:0:0:0
CICT-HD;(null):635000:M10:A:0:49:52=eng,53=eng;52,53:0:0:1:0:0:0
Citytv CALGARY;(null):683000:M10:A:0:33:36=eng,37=fre;36,37:0:0:2:0:0:0
Done.
 
#12 ·
A .2 subchannel appeared for Global Calgary within the last two days.
At first, it was reported the programming was an SD version of the main channel (as is/was done in Winnipeg and Saskatoon).
But soon after, the subchannel remained but was only visible to software tuners on computers — could not tune it on a TV.
Perhaps this is what you are experiencing in Vancouver.
 
#13 ·
Chan TV
I did a scan on the Samsung TV and the 22.1 does now remap to 8.1 which is nice to see as it rarely did that and the other two stations 8.2 and or 22.1 are not showing up on the scan. I have done a TS reader report and it shows the info in the stream. The message I left for them I asked it they were aware there is a PSIP problem. No reply as of yet.
 
#14 ·
Channel 22.1 remap

Since yesterday (and again this morning) the CHAN TV does not remap to 8.1, leaving me with 2, 22.1's. With the antenna pointed south the CHAN signal does not come in strong enough and wipes out the Seattle set. I have to get 25 to remap to 22.1 if I want to watch JOE and Q13 and the other guy.
Other than that, every thing seems to be stable. Maybe I'll try the preamp again in the fall.
Laurie in Ladner with a CM4228 on a rotator
 
#15 ·
In Win7 Media Center I can no longer receive CHAN-DT 8.1 (22) on my HVR-2250 although the analogue channel 8 is OK. I tried adding 22.1 (UHF 22) to Windows 7 Media Center with no success.

Yet on my TV CHAN-DT is working fine.
 
#17 ·
Noticed Global Toronto Sub Channel

It was labelled CIII SD on 41-2 but screen was black.Appears Global wants to carry an Sd version.Waste of bandwidth since converter boxes can adjust size for analog tv viewing using HD feed.
 
#18 ·
some people like having an SD subchannel since they can record without chewing up 3-4 GB / per hour.
that's one argument on the plus side I've heard.
As long as Canadian broadcasters crawl out from beneath their rock, OK by me.
 
#21 ·
Global calgary DT down?

Suddenly Global DT has dropped from my channel lineup. All other channels are behaving as normal. Maybe they are changing stuff up before the Aug 31 deadline? Anyone else notice global missing?

Maybe they went back to the Herald transmitter location.....

Thanks.
 
#22 ·
I checked the signal strength in 7MC and it is 100%, but when I tune to 8.1 (UHF 22) I get the message that Service is unavailable. There is currently no TV signal detected for this channel.

I ran TSReader lite, and it shows two digital signals on channel 22 (-20 dB) :

Channel 0
Service Name: CHAN-SD
TSID: 16667 (0x411b)
Channel Number: 8.2
Carrier Frequency: 0
Modulation Mode: ATSC (8 VSB)
Source ID: 2

Channel 1
Service Name: CHAN-HD
TSID: 16667 (0x411b)
Channel Number: 8.1
Carrier Frequency: 0
Modulation Mode: ATSC (8 VSB)
Source ID: 1
 
#24 ·
Some information for you....

Gang......

Just to clear some things up for you guys.

We (Global) did change quite a bit of the signal path on Tuesday night (July 19th). New encoders, glue (distribution amps, processors, etc.), and a new PSIP inserter.

To help us with the transition, the SD signal is embedded along with the HD. We're likely remove that in the future. Those of you using something like TSReader will see it, but it's not "supposed" to show up on a TV.

Even though it's supposed to be hidden, it's sounding like some devices (computers mainly?) aren't reading the "hidden" key correctly and are still displaying the SD. I may just remove the SD virtual channel settings. There is no PAT or PMT on the SD (just PIDS), so even if your device is finding 8.2 or 22.2, it's unlikely it's going to display anything.

Of more concern is I'm not sure why some of you are not able to tune in the HD service on 8.1 (or 22.1 for those that tried it). It "should" be all set the same, and in our tests it works, but sometimes different devices react in different ways, and it's pretty hard to test all of them.

I'm trying to see a pattern that might explain that, so any clues you can provide would be appreciated.

Information like devices (like brands of TVs), rough locations, when you started to have trouble, etc. might be a hint
In addition to the path change, we also changed the transmitter. It's same location, same antenna and everything, just higher power, so that also "shouldn't" have affected anything in a negative way. If anything it should be easier to receive the signal now.

Then again, I believe in the Einstiein theory: "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice they're not." :D

For those interested, here's the TVCT (Virtual channel table) right out of master control. (Note the "Hidden=1" on the CHAN-SD signal.) You can also see the HD should be mapping to 8.1. (Major/Minor channel number)



Thanks!

Dan

P.S.
I'm the Senior Director, On-Air Systems for Shaw Media. Basically I run our conventional master controls.
 
#25 ·
Early in the US transition (2003-ish), stations which set the Program to 0 would crash several common receivers. Then-WUPN (now-WMYV) was one, any attempt to tune it on several receivers would cause them to crash and/or freeze. In the worst case, one tuner brand would require a hard reset, losing all scanned channels and requiring a rescan. No surprise that some tuners are choking and not displaying anything at all, sounds like an improvement.

I would avoid setting the Program to 0.

- Trip
 
#26 ·
I'm in Lynn Valley, line of sight to Mt. Seymour, about 6km west.

I'm using an attic mounted ClearStream 4 antenna that is split 6 ways to a TV and 5 PC tuners.

1 x Vista View Saber DA-1N1-E Combo Tuner ViXS Pure TV

2 x Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 dual ATSC/NTSC tuners

CHAN-HD 8.1 comes in fine on my TV, a Samsung 42LN550.

My problem started about a week ago in Windows 7 Media Center. All the Vista View and Hauppauge tuners show 100% signal strength on 8.1. But none can receive a signal. I get the message that, Service is unavailable. There is currently no TV signal detected for this channel. My other DTV channels are OK (CBC,CITY,CTV, OMNI, KVOS)

The Hauppauge tuners are on a Asus A8N-SLI Premium, Athlon 64 X2 3800 (S939) running the Hauppauge drivers 7.9.1.28162.

The Vista View is on a Gigabyte MA78GPM-DS2H, Athlon 64 X2 5200 (AM2) running the ViXS drivers 6.2.1.0012

Different tuners, drivers and systems. This leads me to think that the problem is with Windows 7 MC. But why isn't it more widespread?

Finally, I was able to run TSReader lite and stream CHAN-HD to Videolan VLC for playback. So clearly, the Hauppauge tuners and drivers are working properly.

I can send you the TSReader report if you think it would help. it agrees with the report you posted. I really appreciate you reaching out to us like this.

If you search the OTA reception forums you'll see a few of us across the country are having problems with Global TV:

Alberta
British Columbia
Ontario
 
#27 ·
Naviwizard ( Dan )
I can tell you the following
22.1 is active and is the same as 8.1 on my 1250 CPU.
During the Tropo last night I got 25.1 which remaps to 22.1 / 22.2 / 22.3 now I was not able to see any of it because 22.1 got 22.1 first (CHAN TV ) but once I disabled 22.1 I was then able to get all three 25.1 main and subs which remap to 22.1 22.2 22.3.

On my samsung I just get yours on 8.1 no 22.1 I did not see how the reception was during the tropo.
Dan from New Westminster :)
 
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