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ON - Ottawa, Vanier, Gloucester, Orleans - OTA

588K views 2K replies 301 participants last post by  Whitewulf613 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Getting started.
I live just north of the Racetrack/Casino, Quinn Rd

I have lived with rabbit ears for years and want to upgrade to an outside antenna system for 3 TVs picking up as much UHF and VHF signals as possible to start with. By living with cheap rabbit ears running two TVs for years, I know I will be very happy with the improvements I will have going to a proper outside Anenna system for analog and digital signals.

I have been reading posts for 2 days now to get myself started and I think I have information overload and there are so amny things to consider.

I have gone to TVFOOL to find out channels and locations.
I understand I probably do not want a long distance setup as most station are fairly close.
I am not sure of the antennas I need for my area/use.

Does anyone live near me that has been doing this for a while who can help me get started?

Cheers,
 
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#356 ·
flavoie, thanks for the quick reply. Now I got the situation under control by doing two simple things to the CM2221hd antenna. First, I put two screens (36” wide each) right at the front of each Cm2221hd reflector panel. The current reflector width for the CM2221hd is 24”. The screens are directly attached to the existing reflector panels with plastic ties. The height of the screen are maintained the same as the CM2221hd reflector height. This addition increased the gain of the antenna for the low channels, especially for the WNYF (now with SNR 18.5 to 26. Before the mod, it was maximum SNR 18.5) and WNPI (SNR of 27/27 all the time) WFCE (always at 27/27). I get all my local channels at SNR of 27/27 all the time, even without the mod. Last week the high wind pushed down my antenna almost parallel to the inclined roof and I was still getting my locals at SNR 27/27!! The screen is a chicken wire screen (3/4X3/4 inch mesh) from Lowes, cost me about $9.99 (I used only half of it). Second, I tilted my antenna (back) about 5 to 10 degrees to the horizon. The latter assured stable reception and it may contributed to the increase in the SNR.

I highly recommend that you do the screen mesh mod, because it is easy, and your CM2228hd is actually two CM2221hd side-by-side. It is reversible and easy, just cut the plastic ties and remove the screens, if desired.

Because my locals are too strong relative to WNYF, especially CityTV (the strongest of the bunch in my situation), I have Adjacent channel problem (CityTV real channel 17 next to WNYF real 18). I used a variable attenuator. Although the attenuator helped a bit, only the screen mesh mod made a real difference in my situation. I knew adding a screen would work, because of my experience with previous builds of GH10 and my special GH build (I call YGH super). For my latter GH build I designed a special high gain antenna (gain of 17.2 DBi at channel 18 (frequency 497)) to put in my attic where I had to play with different screen designs with NEC2 software. With it I was able to get WNYF at night from the attic
 
#357 · (Edited)
That's great news :)
Never seen a 4228hd hack that is relevant for channel 18, so i'm curious to see how it would work out on a 4228hd, unfortunately i won't be testing it.

My attempts on balun and splitter hack for channel 18 were all failures, so it's nice to see someone successful with something on 18. I am not going on the roof again (yes this may be wishful thinking). I fixed the lag screws which didn't have a truss backing with 2x4 and 2x6s and now i'm done for the roof part, well i hope so.
 
#359 ·
By the way, if you think you have an adjacent channel problem, check my TVFool (my homepage under my profile links to my TVFool) and you'll see I should be having a worse time with 17, but it's fine.
I think you have made your antenna more directional with a narrower beam, and that's a good thing if you want the peripheral local channels (17,...) to be attenuated more vs the US ones.

I think with the almost 90 degree angle you have with HC, City at 17 should be attenuated a lot more than mine, yet i am fine. Now that you've potentially turned the gain down on the sides and raised the gain on the front, you fixed 2 problems: your locals channels being too strong and your distant channels being too weak.

Alternatively, you may have had too much power from the preamp coming to your tuner, period. That would have required a bit of attenuation as well. Splitting the signal would have done the same job (which you did).
 
#360 ·
I think you may be right about the adjacent channel issue, since I'm able to get WNYF with my attic antenna with no difficulty (only in good nights though). And I think the problem is the pre-amp is providing too much amplification in my case. Also my cable runs are all less than 50'. I always felt that I needed a much smaller gain pre-amp. I got the cm7777 as part of a package that included the CM2221hd, 100' coax cable, cm balun and a J pole. Given my location, I think I would never need such a high gain pre-amp...
 
#363 ·
lima, I'm wondering if you tried your CM2228hd to see if you can pull abc (virtual 50.1) and CW (virtual 50.2). I know that you have a deep fringe antenna that you may be using for this reception; I just want to see if it is possible to get at least a glimse of it with CM antennas 2221(mod) and 2228hd. I'm planning to construct a special high gain antenna for that purpose. I have already tested my special antenna in my attic and was able to get the weaker WNYF (nights only). Also I was able to get abc, CW and WPBS during tropo times with another antenna (GH10) in the attic.
 
#364 ·
Flavoie....that is how it is

Skipticum....I have the cm4228 not the 4228hd. It's UHF only and hi-def. I do get abc and cw depending on where I point the antennas. cbs has been very clear of late, just like my omni 1 and 2 HD, along with my 6 pbs channels 18.1,2,3 and 53.1,2.3
 
#368 ·
Can I ask about your ANT751 ?

Q1 ) where and how do you have it mounted ?
Q2) do you have to swivel it or point it do get certain channels ? I've noticed that the CITY and CBC towers are in totally different directions ..
Q3) Do you use an amplifier or other gear with the ANT751 ?

Thanks, John.
 
#369 ·
Was last night a typical reception night?

I made a small change to my CM7777 (terminated the VHF port), and I noticed my reception improved dramatically, especially for the weak channels (WNYF, with SNR of 26/27). I used to use a variable attenuator to tune in WNYF, and after the change to the pre-amp, I no longer need it. Also, I was able to tune in abc (50.1), CW (50.2) and WPBS (16.1, 2, and 3).

The factory setting for CM7777 supposed to be default set to "combined" and FM trap st to "in". But when I opened the box of cm7777, I found it set to VHF separate. I left at VHF separate and terminated the port.

Did we have a tropo effect last night? I'm just trying to see if the improvement in my reception is real.
 
#371 · (Edited by Moderator)
Rewiring pictures

So I finally rewired the side of the house - a part that hadn't been finished yet. Pics here.

http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=1187277&postcount=633

I'm hoping the change to an all-Quad shield run will help. I had Quad only outside up until last week. Many will say it doesn't matter. At least I won't wonder if I did everything I could have :)

I tried using a 2:1 splitter in the house; it decreases my SNR level reading on my 950Q by 1. (WNYF goes from 22/23 to 21/22)
I'll keep it there, this way I don't have to use an A/B switch to switch between my production system (HVR1600+1800, to be replaced by a single 2250) and my 950Q I use for testing.
 
#373 ·
flavoie, I'm wondering if you have tried to tune in abc (50.1) and CW (50.2) with your setup, since you have a rotor with your CM4228HD. I initially had two objectives with my ota hoby; one is to get wnyf reliably, even during the day, and sofar seems I have achieved that (with the outdoor mounted CM4221hd). The other is to get abc and cw (50.1 and 50.2) reliably at night. I'm still trying to see if I need a deep fringe antenna or a common antenna, such as the CM4228hd. If you could give your rotor a try and swing the CM4228hd a bit west and see if you can catch a glimpse of abc and cw.

In a previous post lima mentioned that he can reliably get abc and cw, but I wasn't sure if that was achieved with his long range antenna or the CM4228.
 
#374 ·
Even though lima20's results aren't exactly very clear, and I unfortunately never been blessed to see his TVFool results, he did acknowledge when I was asking that he's using his 4228 original for UHF and his other CM antenna for VHF, and both are mixed in using the cm7777.

So lima20 is getting WWTI 50.1/2 (ABC/CW) but we don't know when he's getting it and whether he's got the capability to know if he loses it during the day. On the other hand, his 4228 does have better gain on channel 50 than my 4228hd.

The couple of times I moved the rotor toward Watertown with my 4228hd and scanned specifically just channel 50, I did not get something showing up. My WinTV software would usually at least show the new channel if it found something. But I will try again. It will need to be at night for sure...
 
#376 ·
tvlurker is right. The real channel is 21 for WWTI. Also, I may add that last week I was able to get WWTI and WPBS with my CM4221hd pointing to the WNYF transmitter, but that was at a mild tropo night. That gives me hope that may be getting WWTI on regular basis is not far fetched...
 
#377 ·
Can't remember if i scanned 21 or 50, this could well explain it... Very good point...

I just rescanned 21 (remotely controling my home PC using vnc) while pointed at WNYF. Nothing. I have remote access to the software, but not the rotor interface... So I will rotate to WWTI sometime this week to try it out again.
 
#380 ·
21 won't get better for those near Herberts Corners.

20 and 22 will be moving to Herberts Corners next summer.

CBOFT will revert to 9 at Camp Fortune, CHCH will flash cut to 22 at Herberts Corners, and CJMT will switch from out-of-core channel 66 to 20 at Herberts Corners.

By the way, 17 is only 5 kW.
 
#381 ·
Regarding channel 21 ABC reception from Ottawa. I am in a great position and receive WCFE,WNPI, WWNY & WWYF 24/7 with a HD8800 and cm7777. For two years I have been experimenting with WWTI reception. I have a high gain 8 foot single cut channel 21 yagi pointed at Watertown with a new kitztech preamp with a dedicated coax and tuner. This setup receives 21 regularly late evening during the summer months, otherwise I get it only during tropo periods. I plan to tweak some more things with it (preamp, pointing and height) in the spring but for the moment I have to conclude that it is not possible to receive regular year-around reception of channel 21 (ABC 50) in Ottawa.

I would like to be proved wrong.
 
#382 ·
After re-reading related threads for receiving WWTI, I came to the conclusion that it is fruitless to pursue my objective of receiving WWTI on regular basis year around as I tend to agree with backpackster. My assessment is that channel 21 is a tropo channel for my case...and that's it.

I'm though puzzled by the report from lima20 stating that he's able to receive WWTI. I'd like very much to hear from lima20 again to shed some light on his reception results, considering that he's geographically very close to my location.
 
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