Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums banner

Future of the /A\ stations

40K views 238 replies 49 participants last post by  wilspin 
#1 ·
Many have speculated on here that CTVgm was only keeping the /A\ stations around to broadcast their prime-time programming during the Olympics. Now that the Vancouver games are over, the question is will they keep them for another 2 1/2 years for the London games. With the analog shutdown scheduled before then, it seems unlikely. The /A\ stations can be grouped into three categories:

  1. Access
  2. /A\ Atlantic
  3. /A\ Broadcast stations

The Access stations are being discussed in the thread Future of Alberta's Access TV Network? so we will leave discussion of them to that thread.

/A\ Atlantic is only on cable and satellite, so it isn't affected by the analog shutdown, and may continue as is (it may even become a national station).

This leaves the Broadcast stations, which include:
  • CKVR - Barrie, ON
  • CFPL - London, ON
  • CHRO - Pembroke/Ottawa, ON
  • CHWI - Wheatley/Windsor, ON
  • CIVI - Victoria, BC

Some may be sold, some may be merged into the CTV network and some may be shut down. This thread is to discuss what could/should happen to each of these stations.
 
See less See more
#106 ·
The biggest reason why Canadian networks show so much programming from the big 4 can be summed up with the expression, "If you can't beat them, join them." Most Canadians have access to the big 4 one way or another, and the Canadian networks have troubles generating programming that can compete head to head with the big budget programs from down south. However, with simusub rules the way they are, they can prevent people from watching the American networks by showing the same programs at the same time.

About the only way we can get the Canadian stop buying so much programming from the big 4 is to do as vjose78 said and take them off of basic service. This would be very unpopular as most people want to have their cake and eat it to.
 
#108 ·
When I was at the open house.

The engineer stated that A London will Flashcut at or near August 31 cut off.
The ERP will be at 14kW. Also that multiplexing was discussed. Also Wingham & Wiarton would remain on the air.

I can see CTV multiplexing Both A & CTV into one national feed. Multiplexing makes alot of sense in Ottawa & Vancouver. As their is an A & CTV in both of the markets.

On a side note: 'The Marilyn Denis Show' is on the hunt for on-air contributors.

http://shows.ctv.ca/MarilynDenisSho...ow-is-on-the-hunt-for-on-air-contributors#c_0

Read ya l8r,
Al
 
#112 ·
CRTC policy currently forbids subchannels on digital stations. That may change in future but it's probably to force conversion of all current analog stations and to stop broadcasters from piling a bunch of digital SD channels onto one signal to save money. Personally, I'd like to see HD signal quality preserved for major networks. OTOH, subchannels or multicasting can lower costs for broadcasters and provide more services for Canadians.
 
#115 ·
Big difference. You're talking about digital speciality channels. I'm talking about sister channels. It's not common in North America, outside of, for example, Super Channel 1-4, or Showtime and ShowToo, but in Europe and Australasia it's very common. ABC and TVNZ both have several channels. BBC has 4 main channels ontop of it's news channels and speciality channels that it co-owns with Virgin Media. Why can't we have that here? Basically it'd be like we get a new network alongside CTV, CBC and Global, except it'd be called CTV 2 or whatever.
 
#116 ·
First, it would need to be approved by the CRTC. They have limits on how many stations of a particular type a broadcaster can operate in a single market. Last I heard, this was still strictly enforced. I think it's a great idea as well but the CRTC will likely deny any such applications. That's another reason why CTV and /A\ stations are unlikely to be combined as main+sub channels.
 
#119 ·
SunTV no longer broadcasts SD subchannel copies of their HD main channel. I think that was done in the early days to make it "easier" for Rogers to pick them up for the analog service. It took a CRTC decision to do that instead, and now the SD channel is no longer needed so it's gone.

It's a shame that the only one of six ATSC broadcast stations in Ottawa that has correct PSIP program and time information won't be on the air much longer...

(CBC English -- correct program information (except for Toronto News instead of Ottawa News), but the time is an hour off
SRC: no program info, can't remember if the time was right
CITY: wrong time, no program info
OMNI1/2, wrong time, no program info
SunTV: correct time, correct program info
CRC-DT: wrong time, has program info.
 
#121 ·
Multicasting

That a shame.
In that case the only subchannels i can see coming are:

All Local news channel. aka broadcast an hour of toronto then hour of Ottawa then London then Vancouver, etc.

Canadian Gold. All Canadian old TV/Movie channel. Littlest Hobo, Birzarre & Old Canadian classics.

Read ya l8r,
Al
 
#122 ·
Subchannels may be savior

Well down here in Windsor it seems like it is a real possibility that many Canadian OTAs will simply walk away after post-digital, If making use of Sub-channels can reduce their costs and make the conversion more viable I fully support it.

CBET,CBEFT and TVO could all go to one set of sub-channels, as it currently is they are sharing the same tower now, they may even add TVOF. The A-Channel, Global and possibly CTV could share, as well, other than the limitations on Hi-Def I could see this as a win-win for both broadcasters and viewers. As it is now all of the public broadcasters in Windsor have yet to even offer stereo as it would be perceived as a luxury.

On a side note the other day I picked up channel 9.1 and 9.2 from Cadilac Michigan, 9.1 WWTV CBS while 9.2 was WFQX FOX. So as you can see this model is aleady being expoited stateside.
 
#123 ·
mkenney, I am not sure what your concern is as Windsor should do pretty well. TVO and CBET will definitely transition (though CBET may be a bit late). It is true CBEFT will likely go off air though. The future of the /A\ network is a bit uncertain at this point though and I don't think sub-channels will help it. I haven't heard anything about CTV yet though, but I would be surprised if they didn't transition.
 
#125 ·
INSERT VENT HERE: Can someone explain to me how every other primary and secondary network in all of Canada (I will give Access TV in Alberta a pass) has at least one HD feed available, yet /A\ is the only network that still hasn't upgraded its facilities somewhere to provide this service. Heck, you would think they would by now one way or another... its just frustrating...
 
#126 ·
I think CTV would rather shut most of them down than put any money into digital conversion. The /A\ channels have been gutted of talent and equipment by every recent owner, including CTV. They don't make money now and digital conversion is a major investment with no promise of any return. I think CTV is hoping a buyer will appear but it doesn't look promising.
 
#127 ·
I don't get how a station like CHEX-TV Peterbrough or any one of those other small-market broadcasters see a future upgrade to Digital and stay on the air. Yet CFPL (A-Channel) can't turn a profit or choose to provide anything above a sub-par talent gutted station to a market the size of London. It really is pathetic that we could loose our source of local TV news. I could only imagine what the Blackburn family would think of what has become of CFPL.
 
#128 ·
I think CTV would rather shut most of them down than put any money into digital conversion. The /A\ channels have been gutted of talent and equipment by every recent owner, including CTV. They don't make money now and digital conversion is a major investment with no promise of any return. I think CTV is hoping a buyer will appear but it doesn't look promising.
I still think it's possible that CTV will put CFPL into the CTV network fold. Strategically I think there is just too much to lose by walking away from a market of almost 1 million (when you factor in their coverage area throughout Southwestern Ontario).
 
#129 ·
CFPL probably would make money as a CTV affiliate. It made money as a CBC affiliate but went downhill as an independent. I'm not sure what the CRTC would have to say or what the business perspective would be but it makes sense since the London market is at least as large as Kitchener/Waterloo. In the US, a market the size of London would probably have at least 3 major network stations plus independents.
 
#130 ·
CFPL probably would make money as a CTV affiliate. It made money as a CBC affiliate but went downhill as an independent. I'm not sure what the CRTC would have to say or what the business perspective would be but it makes sense since the London market is at least as large as Kitchener/Waterloo.
While I agree that it could be profitable, the question from CTV's perspective is would it make more money than having one station serving both K/W and London.

In the US, a market the size of London would probably have at least 3 major network stations plus independents.
Comparisons with the US are always difficult since the regulations are different. For one thing, the major network stations in a market the size of London wouldn't be owned by the network, but be independent affiliates. Allowing networks to own most/all of their affiliates encourages widespread distribution of a limited number of centralized stations. Requiring a certain percentage of their markets have independent affiliates encourages them to sell affiliations in more small markets to permit them to own more stations in major markets.
 
#131 ·
would it make more money than having one station serving both K/W and London.
CKCO doesn't really serve London and the signal is marginal. I know the CRTC thinks it serves London but they are wrong. CKCO isn't on BSTV or ShawD either so only people on cable and the few that have decent antenna systems can actually watch it.
 
#132 ·
CKCO doesn't really serve London and the signal is marginal. I know the CRTC thinks it serves London but they are wrong. CKCO isn't on BSTV or ShawD either so only people on cable and the few that have decent antenna systems can actually watch it.
Also Kitchener and London are vastly different communities. CTV trying to serve both markets with a single slate of regional news programming would almost be as foolish as what CBC did in Alberta almost 20 years ago, trying to serve Edmonton and Calgary with one newscast. Local advertisers would have a lot to say - local London businesses would feel they are wasting their ad dollars on a newscast targeting both Kitchener and London, and vice-versa. With the cost of TV advertising today, a lot of local advertisers could be turned off by such a move and move to other media. Or worse for CTV, band together and apply to the CRTC for competing stations.
 
#133 ·
The Chatham CKCO repeater on 42 comes in fine in London. I know that a few local London developers have looked at the CFPL property. The sticking point is the building since the area has residential zoning. It must either be demolished or turned into a retirement home.

Bell will have 2 floors empty in their leased building in downtown London in 2011 - plenty of room for a small studio to do 1.5 hours of local news/day.
 
#134 ·
The Chatham CKCO repeater on 42 comes in fine in London.
Not true. There are large areas of London where 42 (CTV) and 29 (Global) are not receivable. Where I am, it is two edge, eclipsed by the Byron Hill. According to TV Fool, I need a 250' tower to get LOS and almost as much to get one edge. The Byron hill and high ground to the north and south of it make 42 and 29 a lost cause in many parts of London.
 
#135 ·
I still think it's possible that CTV will put CFPL into the CTV network fold.
I think that is a good idea, enough of this A crap- time to put that brand to rest. Also, Bell could set up a mini system for southern Ontario like they have with their 3 stations in Northern Ontario. You could have CTV Southwestern Ontario- London & CTV Southwestern Ontario- Kitchener.

I agree that Kitchener and London are different communities and markets. With London, they could extend the coverage area to include everything south to Windsor & west to Sarnia and make it sort of a Southern Ontario superstation. The Kitchener station, on the other hand, should be intended to serve the grand river area (Kitchener, Waterloo, Cambridge, Guelph & Brantford) as well as Woodstock, London is a little too south.
 
#136 ·
The unfortunate reality is CTVgm doesn't care if people in London can receive CKCO OTA as long as they are on basic cable. Local advertisers may be a bit more important, but still not a huge concern as even if they loose 50% of the local advertisers from each market by combining them, they would still have just as many ads per hour to broadcast. Besides, national advertisers make the bulk of their advertising revenue.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top