Shaw Direct Satellite Installation Discussions - See Post 1 - Page 4 - Canadian TV, Computing and Home Theatre Forums
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post #46 of 701 (permalink) Old 2010-11-05, 11:11 AM
 
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Quote:
I do not see any damage to the LNB but this weekend I will connect to my other dish to try it for the signal.
That'll be a good check that will help isolate the problem.

Quote:
when I found it in the driveway the mast was folded up
It must have taken quite a hit.

Did you inspect the mounting bracket on the dish-itself to ensure that the skew and elevation settings, when properly set, will still place the reflector in the correct position?

Are you sure that the angle of the LNB arm is still correct with respect to the dish? It's hard to believe that it could take that kind of impact without something getting bent or twisted.

Quote:
The thing that baffles me is why does the bar not even move
Maybe we need a response from someone with more experience than I.....but it seems to me that my bar was pretty steady at about 30 until such time as I approached the signal from Anik F1R....then it went up.

The only time I ever saw my signal get anywhere near zero was one time when I had corrosion in an outdoor connector which shorted out the communication between the receiver and the dish......
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post #47 of 701 (permalink) Old 2010-11-05, 12:15 PM
 
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Gents,

My experience is quite limited, but I did test my 505 reciever (last summer) without any cable connection to the LNB, and then the signal strength is zero. (I don't know if your reciever is the same but the principles should follow if different.) Once you connect the cable to the reciever with the LNB (and dish not aligned to the Birds) the signal goes up to around 20. This indicates functionality of the apparatus. (LNB, Cable, and Reciever) I tested this setup as well.

I never got into the 30s until I was very close to aligning to the Birds => then the signal strength climbs rapidly. I'd suggest you try these simple tests and see if the signal is near zero without connection to the LNB, and again connected with the dish not aimed at all towards the Birds. (Hold a garbage can lid or something infront of the dish to inhibit reception if you don't want to muck about with the dish settings.) If it's still reading ~30s in both cases I'd suspect at least the Cable and/or Reciever is defective. If it's not reading above zero then alignment or damage to the LNB / dish assembly is indicated as suggested by joshuals.

Regards,
Jim
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post #48 of 701 (permalink) Old 2010-11-05, 12:17 PM
 
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Maybe the arm or its mounting has been bent by the fall? Or maybe the cable broke internally?

Hey, joshuals, I've been wondering about the difference between signal strength and Ecb value as I've been moving and re-aligning my own dish. They don't seem to be directly related (e.g., sometimes signal strength goes up while Ecb goes down and vice-versa). All the SD/*C docs refer to signal strength only. I can't find any explanation online beyond the basic definition that Ecb is the signal-to-noise ratio. While I understand that, shouldn't that mean that the two numbers are directly related for a given dish installation? Have you ever run across an explanation of how these reported numbers are related?
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post #49 of 701 (permalink) Old 2010-11-05, 12:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DP Ames View Post
Maybe the arm or its mounting has been bent by the fall? Or maybe the cable broke internally?


Hey, joshuals, I've been wondering about the difference between signal strength and Ecb value as I've been moving and re-aligning my own dish. They don't seem to be directly related (e.g., sometimes signal strength goes up while Ecb goes down and vice-versa). All the SD/*C docs refer to signal strength only. I can't find any explanation online beyond the basic definition that Ecb is the signal-to-noise ratio. While I understand that, shouldn't that mean that the two numbers are directly related for a given dish installation? Have you ever run across an explanation of how these reported numbers are related?
Here's the only ShawDirect reference I've found on Ecb/no:


"Be sure to hook up your Shaw Direct receiver and TV prior to installing or adjusting the dish; it will make tuning your dish much easier. Once you've run lines from your Shaw Direct receiver to the dish, you can use the signal strength readings on your receiver to help fine tune your signal. To access the signal strength readings, press Options on your remote control, then 6 - System Setup, 4 - System Setting, then 7 - System Status (Options 6-4-7). View line C to check your signal. The Ecb/no reading should be above 8.0 to receive the best uninterrupted picture."

from: http://www.shawdirect.ca/english/cus....asp?province=

Regards,
Jim
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post #50 of 701 (permalink) Old 2010-11-06, 01:00 PM
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Signal an EcbNo are related, but not the same.

Signal is just the raw signal the receiver is tuning. You get 39 on an un-aimed dish, because it is reading the noise an LNB generates.

EcbNo is signal to noise, as in how much usable data can be pulled out of the received signal.
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post #51 of 701 (permalink) Old 2010-11-06, 07:24 PM
 
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Someone explained it to me this way:

Think of your connection as a hose with water coming out. The "signal strength" is the pressure with which the water flows out; the "Ecb/No" is equivalent to how good the water tastes. Signal strength is a measure of "quantity", Ecb/No is a measure of "quality".

Evidently, when it comes to maintaining signal lock in bad weather conditions, the quality is more important than the quantity. So in the final fine-tuning process, it is recommended that you maximize the quality of the signal and give second priority to the quantity.......
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post #52 of 701 (permalink) Old 2010-11-08, 03:44 PM
 
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That may be a little too simplified, joshuals.

I know what signal-to-noise ratio is. I could see that adding a longer cable could both increase the background noise and decrease the signal strength, for example. But shouldn't the background noise in a given system stay about the same as you adjust the aim of the dish, so that the signal strength would always be directly related to the Ecb value? If the background noise stays the same, then increased signal strength should result in increased signal-to-noise ratio.

Are there other things in the local environment that could affect the background noise depending on where you point the dish? Maybe like reflections of local noise sources from objects near the beam path?
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post #53 of 701 (permalink) Old 2010-11-08, 08:38 PM
 
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Cool

I wish there was a reference eBook for Satellite TV installation and tweaking that offered a bit more depth and explanations than ShawDirect's Installation manual.

Something that actually explained some of these items, and their relationship to each other, and the impacts of same.

Regards,
Jim
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post #54 of 701 (permalink) Old 2011-02-26, 11:04 AM
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Dish Alignment

Hi, we are in central Florida in an RV with a 630 and 75e dish.Recently we started to see pixelation, particularly on HD channels and nearly always concentrated on the face area. This has been more noticeable since 4.06 upgrade.

Anyway decided to see if realigning the dish would help. I have just got hold of an SSM-22 Tuning meter so I put it on one of the unused LNB sockets and proceeded to realign the dish. Immediately the signal strength began to rise with just a minute movement of the dish. Spent about 20 minutes peaking all 3 axis and was quite pleased with the results....... until I went in to look at the TV, NO picture, NO signal!

Went outside with figures from the Sat Finder programme, started from scratch, realigned with the same result.

Back to basics, had the wife sit in front of the TV and yell when there was a signal! Got the picture back and tweaked the dish for the best reading, the SSM-22 was still connected but it did not peak where the best TV signal was

Now for a couple of assumptions,
1. The dish will receive a signal from any satellite it sees within its bandwidth
2. The LNB will down convert any received signal, it does not just pass the ShawDirect satellite signal.
3. The SSM22 reacts to all received signals, not just the ShawDirect

Question is why doesn't the signal on the SSM-21 peak at the same point as the tuner signals on the TV

I also put an el-cheapo signal meter in line with coax, and it to peaked at the same time as the SSM22, not with the tuner signal strength bars.

Is it possible that there is a stronger signal from WildBlue-1 which seems to be in close proximity to F2 and I was trying to lock on to it with the meter??

Any thoughts,
Wooly

Last edited by wooly; 2011-02-26 at 12:36 PM.
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post #55 of 701 (permalink) Old 2011-04-23, 10:25 PM
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Exclamation Signal Headaches! Help!!

I am trying to set up a second receiver at our cottage in Manitoba. The receiver I am trying to set up is an older one, but was in working order when previously replaced. There was an aftermarket dish on the house which was hooked up to a FTA dish (on starchoice signal) when we got the cabin, but I've been told star choice receivers MUST use a star choice dish so I purchased an older used star choice dish to accompany my Star Choice receiver. I had no luck getting a signal, at one point I appeared to have as high as 51% signal, but it was flickering between 51, 48, and 12%, too inconsistent to acquire picture I thought. After determining the trees may be a factor, as well as the old dish, I decided to get another dish (borrowed, not yet purchased) which had more modern looking LNBs. I now have the satellite dish solidly mounted, pointed to 196 degrees with an elevation of roughly 32 (according to markings on the back of the dish). I also changed the location to eliminate all obstruction (pointed over a square mile of flat field). This is where I have a max signal strength of 21. WTF! I tried switching back to the other dish I had. Also changed coaxial cables and removed the splitter to have the best direct LNB-receiver connection. This improved my signal to 23.... still a long way to go! I have installed beV and FTA satellites for friends in the past, but my star choice at home was also on location prior to my arrival, so I didn't have this pleasure... until now. I can't see it being a receiver problem unless the settings need to be changed. And I can't see it being the satellite since I have tried 2 star choice elliptical, and an aftermarket elliptical dish with no luck. Product specs of my main equipment below, someone please help.... this is infuriating!!!!

The receiver is a DSR305, with the number 479054-001 directly below. The front is marked MOTOROLA on top left and STAR CHOICE on the bottom right. The dish LNBs are marked with the following:
Star Choice
Dual Satellite Quad Output Switchable Ku LNBF
Model name: LM-2738-SC
Input Frequency: 11.7-12.2GHz
Output Frequency: 950-1450 MHz(non-stacked)
Linear Polarization: Vetical 10.15V
Horizontal 16-20V
For use with 60E dish only
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post #56 of 701 (permalink) Old 2011-04-23, 11:09 PM
 
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well i can tell you the whole time you had the splitter hooked was a waste of time, ensure there is a direct run from the lnb to the receiver. it was probally a diseqc switch.
i'm also not sure if the older receivers will work with the new 22khz lnb's.
or how old the 305 is for that matter.
if the dish was already skewed and the elevation set as long as you have your mast perfectly level it shouldn't be very hard to find just make sure if you are using the receiver as a signal metre you slightly move the dish wait 3 seconds...ect...ect.
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post #57 of 701 (permalink) Old 2011-04-24, 12:27 AM
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Depending on how long the receiver was disconnected (several months?) it may need to be reauthorized. A 305 should work with those dishes. But the 305 tuners were known to sometimes give out with symptoms like "flickering between 51, 48, and 12%"
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post #58 of 701 (permalink) Old 2011-04-24, 12:29 AM
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Thumbs up

It's not a signal issue as line of sight is clear as can be. It has to be a setting on the receiver, or a hardware malfunction/compatibility issue. The splitter wasn't a disecq switch, it was simply to join 2 cables for distance. I appreciate the attempt, but this isn't gonna be solved by average Joe, I need someone who knows what they're talking about as this shouldn't be nearly as frustrating as it is.
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post #59 of 701 (permalink) Old 2011-04-24, 05:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claytron View Post
It's not a signal issue as line of sight is clear as can be. It has to be a setting on the receiver, or a hardware malfunction/compatibility issue. The splitter wasn't a disecq switch, it was simply to join 2 cables for distance. I appreciate the attempt, but this isn't gonna be solved by average Joe, I need someone who knows what they're talking about as this shouldn't be nearly as frustrating as it is.
Claytron,

There are folks here from Rookies to Installers and lots of experience. Actually Sat TV is really almost paint-by-numbers if you can read and follow instructions. First try not to get frustrated, patience is definitely a virtue. If you want to see a tough install check out this thread.

Tough installation - Location - Help PLease

Anyway, onto your problem. Assuming your mast is plumb in both directions, and you've got a 60E (oval to newbies) dish, your LNB is correct. "Installer's advice on the "splitter" is correct. You cannot use a splitter in this application. If you need to join (not recomended practice) your RG6 Quad Shield Cables use a Barrel Type F Connector. You run a continous cable from the LNB at the Dish to the reciever.You can download how to install from Shaw Direct here for reference and the angles needed for your location in Manitoba.

http://www.shawdirect.ca/english/doc...Manual_Eng.pdf

jbracing24 is experienced enough to know about a 305. You don't mention where in Manitoba the cottage is, so look up the nearest town on page 11 of the install manual, or go to Dishpointer for the right numbers.

http://www.dishpointer.com/

Simply follow the process in the manual and it should work.

Regards,
Jim
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post #60 of 701 (permalink) Old 2011-04-24, 05:25 AM
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Remember you want magnetic if using a compass. 196 seems wrong for Manitoba. Whiteshell seems to be 198.8.

"Average Joe"

Jimsathome sums it up below!!!
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