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Channel Master DVRs For OTA

363K views 982 replies 152 participants last post by  Gibsons 
#1 ·
This should work in Canada too. My TV guide on my old DVD recorder displayed Canadian TV station content, so this machine should too.

From C-Net:

EchoStar TR-50: An HD DVR for those without cable or satellite
(Credit: EchoStar)

If you think everybody has cable or satellite, you couldn't be more wrong. In fact, if you live in an area that's well-served by digital broadcasters, now's a better time than ever to get your TV over the air (or "OTA," as the cool kids say): yeah, you get only a handful of channels, but they're in crystal-clear digital quality--DVD quality at "worst," uncompressed high-definition at best. The problem--as we're reminded by many an e-mailer--is that there just isn't a good DVR solution for the rabbit-ears crowd, especially if you prefer high-def. (You can opt for a TiVo HD, but you'd still have to pay a monthly fee for their programming guide.) But that may finally be changing, thanks to the EchoStar TR-50. For all intents and purposes, the TR-50 takes many of the features found on Dish Networks' excellent satellite DVRs (such as the ViP622 and 722) and brings them to antenna-based TV viewers.

The unit offers ATSC and NTSC tuners, so it can view and record over-the-air HD digital, standard digital, and analog channels. Dual tuner action means you can watch (and record) one live channel while simultaneously recording a second--or record two channels while playing back a previously recorded show. There's also full control over live TV, including rewind, pause, slow motion, 10-second "instant replay," and--for recordings--30-second skip. The TR-50 also sports a 7-day electronic program guide (using over-the-air metadata on the digital band), which should eliminate the pesky VCR-style manual "timer recordings" (you remember: "8:00-9:00 p.m. / Thursdays / channel 4"). The box also has a full range of outputs, including component and HDMI (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i resolutions supported), as well as standard-def composite and RF outputs for older TVs. Dish hasn't yet specified the internal hard drive size, but the USB 2.0 connector will ensure expandable storage. Perhaps most interestingly, the TR-50 includes an Ethernet port and the ability to decode MPEG-4 video, and EchoStar touts its ability to "access premium Internet-based TV programming via broadband Internet," as well as "DVR management and timer creation via Internet"--though the timeframe for such features wasn't disclosed. Likewise, the exact release date and pricing information remain a mystery. But if it's affordable--and lacks TiVo's monthly fee--the TR-50 may be the perfect fit for TV viewers without satellite or cable who still want to enjoy HD programming on their own schedule.

Separately, EchoStar also announced the TR-40. That model is merely a digital set-top box (no DVR). It will let analog TV owners (or those with HD monitors that lack a tuner) receive digital and high-def signals over the air--a necessity after the scheduled February 2009 analog TV shutdown.
 
#381 · (Edited)
comparisons of ATSC tuners to the CM7000 PAL

The PAL and my 46LG70 are pretty close, the PAL wins out, however the LG's feed is via PAL's pass-thru, perhaps with a direct feed the LG wins by a slim margin?

Certainly worth the large investment. The joy of preselecting interesting programs using zap2it and watching them when I want, harkens my first months with a vcr, but this is 10x better!

Save and Replay is where I decided to purchase from, best dollar value and no nonsense on the phone.
 
#382 ·
to krusty 79

I live in Laval. Want to know if the CM7000 you are using comes with an electronic programming guide and if all the Montréal stations you can tune are displayed in details in the programming guide or if there are only a few stations available in the guide like the ASUS tuner I am using on my computer describing the programming of only the 2-1 and 17-1 but not the 6,12 and 35?
 
#383 · (Edited by Moderator)
Assume you are asking about the CM7000PAL DVR since the other one is only an ATSC tuner/converter for CRT TVs. The DVR has up to one week of TV Guide programming information. U.S. station information is great but Canadian station networks like Global, OMNI and sometimes CTV are incomplete or always blank. CBC is okay most of the time.

Not sure why the programming information of Canadian stations are so poor, but optimistically look to the August conversion to digital in Canada as being a signficant turning point.
 
#384 ·
@yvesb

Well, here it is:

2.1: Radio-Canada: about 2 days
3.1: CBS: 1 week approx.
3.2: CBS: Weather Station is no guide
5.1: NBC: Hours
5.2: This: This is a bug because we see the 5.1 guide
6.1: CBC: No Guide
12.1: CTV: No Guide
17.1: TQ: 2 days approx.
33.1,2,3,4: 1 week approx.
35.1: V: No Guide
44.1,2: FOX: Hours
57.1,2,3: 1 week approx.

Note that I had the same thing with my Samsung TV only.

For the rest, it's a very good machine. It's easy to use
and even children know how to use without too much explanation ....
 
#413 ·
Well, here it is:

2.1: Radio-Canada: about 2 days
3.1: CBS: 1 week approx.
3.2: CBS: Weather Station is no guide
5.1: NBC: Hours
5.2: This: This is a bug because we see the 5.1 guide
6.1: CBC: No Guide
12.1: CTV: No Guide
17.1: TQ: 2 days approx.
33.1,2,3,4: 1 week approx.
35.1: V: No Guide
44.1,2: FOX: Hours
57.1,2,3: 1 week approx.

Note that I had the same thing with my Samsung TV only.

For the rest, it's a very good machine. It's easy to use
and even children know how to use without too much explanation ....
Recently got a PAL from La Source. Like it so far.
Krusty, which zip code did you enter? I use the one for Vermont (Burlington/Plattsburgh) from the manual. Does it really make a difference? Is this really TV Guide data that we are getting or just PSIP? (I am in Montréal/Ahuntsic)
 
#385 ·
5.2: This: This is a bug because we see the 5.1 guide
I think to truly say that one's a bug, we'd have to see if it's truly in the stream or not via something like TsReader. If it's not in the stream when looking at it in TSReader, then it's not a bug.
e.g. - The station here in Buffalo, WNGS that carries ThisTV definitely does not transmit a guide. It's just not being sent, so it's not a bug over here.
On the other hand, I see u can't see a guide on CBC over there either. CBC I know for a fact, transmits a guide in the Toronto Area, an impressive 10 days or so, but ya can't see it on ur TV or STB. Now that's a Bug.
 
#386 ·
Cm-7000 dtv pal

Just noticed that this device is on sale at the Channel Master website for $289.99USD, which--considering the CAD is currently above par--is better than the $399.99 being charged by some distributors here in Canada.

Question: Has anyone in Ontario ordered this item directly from Channel Master in the US? And if so, were there any surprises with duties and brokerage fees? How long did it take to receive?

Thanks...
 
#387 ·
Has anyone in Ontario ordered this item directly from Channel Master in the US? And if so, were there any surprises with duties and brokerage fees?
I haven't. But their only shipping option to Canada is Fedex International Economy ($44.25 to Toronto), so there's no need to be surprised - you WILL be charged GST/HST as well as brokerage fees by Fedex. Using the handy calculator at http://www.thefinalcost.com/shipments/calculate/ shows a total cost of about $420. YMMV depending on your location and GST/HST rate. If you could convince Channel Master to ship via the USPS, you could potentially save a few bucks.

Anymore comparisons of ATSC tuners to the CM7000 PAL
While trying to fix my reception problems, I took note of some information which sheds light on the CM7000PAL's tuner. Since it has a dual tuner, of course the DVR has a splitter built right in to the box. This effectively lowers the signal as soon as you plug it in. So depending on the signal strength off your antenna and the length of your cable run, you could see significant differences between your TV tuner and the CM tuner using the same wire. In my case, my LG 37LC7D locks in 11 channels while the CM only sees 4 from the exact same wire. My installer is suggesting a distribution amp right before the DVR to compensate. I'll let you know how that goes once my equipment is all sorted out.
 
#395 ·
I picked up the CM-7000PAL today at Save and Replay in Mississauga. Even though I may have been able to save a few bucks by ordering online, I didn't want to wait--and it was a good opportunity to check out the store.

Small store, easy to find. Friendly and knowledgeable staff. Busy place!

So far so good with the DVR. I already have a Bell 9241, so the device and interface (which are made by the same manufacturer) are familiar. I may have to disable the IR port on the Bell box, as the PAL uses the same codes.

Signal sensitivity, adjacent channel rejection, and overall reception quality is on par with my Sony Bravia's ATSC tuner. Channel scan speed is somewhat slower than the Bravia.
 
#400 ·
Jase, according to the instructions, you can change address for remote 1, which is IR only. I've never tried it, but i suspect it works, there are people with more than 1 reciever.
1. Press SYSTEM INFO on the receiver's front panel. The System Information screen
displays on the nearby TV and shows the Remote Address.
Write down the Secondary Remote Address:___________________
If changing the address for Remote Control 1, write down the Primary Remote
Address:___________________
2. Press and hold SAT on your remote control for about three seconds, until all of the
mode buttons light up, and then let go of SAT.
3. Use the NUMBER PAD to enter any number between 1 and 16, but not the one you
wrote in step 1.
4. Press POUND (#). If you entered the address correctly, SAT will flash three times.
Write down the number you entered:___________________
5. Press RECORD. Make sure the Remote Address you see on the System Information
screen is the same as the one you entered in step 3. If it isn't, the remote cannot
control the receiver.
6. Press SELECT to close the System Information screen.
 
#398 ·
I picked up a PAL at S&R a month or so ago. I agree, great little store, people are a pleasure to deal with.

The PAL is working out fine so far. There are some similarities to my Bell box, and there are a few things that it doesn't do quite as well, like name-based timers but it's acceptable. One day I turned it on and I guess it must've been an exceptionally clear day because it informed me that it found and added 3 additional channels (26.1-3). They disappeared later that day and never returned but I just thought it was cool that it 'discovered' them on it's own without me initiating a search.
 
#399 ·
Some observations after a few days' use:

This unit definitely likes a lot of signal. While tuner performance is close to my Bravia, I may need to add a distribution amp to my setup to prevent weaker channels from breaking up occasionally. Using the tuner on my Sony, you can certainly see the signal loss through the analog-pass through.

For whatever reason, the unit is less sensitive to channel 26 (WNYB Jamestown). Even when I point the antenna directly at Jamestown, I still get dropouts on this channel--which doesn't occur with the Sony tuner.

It's so nice to be able to pause live TV once again!
 
#403 ·
Does anyone else have difficulty recording programming on CFTO Toronto?

First of all, I notice that CFTO's programming info alternates between available (populated with correct programming info) and "no info available"; often several times throughout a day. There is also a "000-00" channel that appears to contain CFTO's info...but it's not actually a channel. Removing this "channel" from the guide does nothing--it simply reappears later.

Whenever I set a program to record on CFTO, the program entry simply disappears later in the day. This doesn't seem to be an issue for other channels...
 
#405 ·
Does anyone else have difficulty recording programming on CFTO Toronto?

There is also a "000-00" channel that appears to contain CFTO's info...but it's not actually a channel. Removing this "channel" from the guide does nothing--it simply reappears later.

Whenever I set a program to record on CFTO, the program entry simply disappears later in the day. This doesn't seem to be an issue for other channels...
Still have the issue last night. To see what is on CFTO 9 go to 000-00 to view program but to record go to CFTO 9. I trust this will work itself out in a few days, likely due to daylight savings time.
 
#404 ·
Jase88, I had the same issue with my PAL this week. Weird channel 000-00 appeared in the guide with CTV programming info and 9-1 had no data. It started on Monday or Tuesday and it was back to normal as of this morning.
 
#406 ·
000-00 Issue

I did a complete rescan, and it resolved the issue for me immediately. I haven't seen the "ghost channel" since (been a few days now).

The downside: Using the Setup Wizard to rescan erased all of my DVR program entries. It may be possible to rescan without losing entries...but I haven't looked deeper into this as yet.
 
#407 ·
It seems my initial suspicion that the CM-7000PAL requires a lot of signal was wrong. In fact, the opposite is true.

Background:
I have an XG-91 at 69', then a CM7777 preamp with about 90' of RG6 into the house, then the power inserter, and another 10' to the DVR.

My TVFOOL Report

After installing the DVR, I found that I lost channels 44.1 (RF 44 OMNI 1 Toronto), and 26.x (RF 26, Jamestown, NY) compared to my Sony Bravia tuner. Given these channels are distant, the long RG6 run from the antenna, and that the DVR internally splits the signal for two tuners, I assumed that the device may not be getting enough signal.

Adding a 4-port distribution amp (8db gain per leg) after the pre-amp power inserter didn't change anything.

Knowing that there are some strong local UHF analog stations, I then opted to attenuate the signal by adding a two-port splitter (3.5db loss per leg). Situation improved!

I then tried a 3-way splitter, putting the DVR on the 7db loss leg. Even better!

In conclusion, the DVR likely has poorer adjacent channel rejection than my Bravia's tuner. If you're having some channel issues with this device (compared to other tuners), you may wish to try what I've done to see if the situation improves.
 
#408 ·
Does anyone else have a problem with this unit not being reliable for recording shows?

I find that, on occasion one of my programmed timers will just disappear. Other times, it does not record a scheduled program and when you look in the daily timer list, it just says "stopped!" next to the listing.
 
#409 ·
There are two situations where I've found that recordings will be missed:

1) See post 406 above (000-00 channel issue); and (2) No signal when device attempts to tune the channel to record. The device won't record nothingness.

The second issue is typically my fault: Not having the antenna rotated to the correct direction.

Otherwise, the device has been reliable for recording.
 
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